[Magdalen] Bishop Cook: Another unfortunate piece of the story

Wed Feb 4 16:26:30 UTC 2015

I need to find that. I think that may be where the seminary edict originally came from.

> On Feb 4, 2015, at 10:22 AM, Lynn Ronkainen <houstonklr at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Earlier this week on the HoB/D list in a post not related to the MD Cook issue the TEC national policy of TEC was posted. Anyone read that? I can only think that many of our churches are not in compliance.
> Lynn
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, Ann, there is no doubt that the church is embedded in a culture in which alcohol consumption and even alcoholism are widely tolerated.
> 
> But we are also called to be "in the world, but not of it." Other denominations seem to manage that in this area; I don't see any reason why we couldn't, except that we lack the will.
> I am NOT suggesting that everyone needs to stop drinking, just that the church shouldn't be a place that encourages and participates in it and refuses to deal with its abuse.
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:58 AM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with Ginga, except to say that in this instance, the church is a
>> reflection of the larger culture as a whole.  The church doesn't get off
>> scot-free, of course, but it is embedded in a culture of denial and the
>> narcissistic wish to see what one wants to see.  I understand about being
>> in the last stages of a search process, thinking you've found your
>> "perfect" candidate, and managing "not to hear" some inconvenient bit of
>> information that might have put the kibosh on the whole thing.  I've seen
>> it on both ends - the "searcher" and the "searchee."  I understand about
>> wanting to believe someone you regard highly is really, thoroughly in
>> recovery, when they're actually not, but are keeping secrets.  I also
>> understand the shame and the secret-keeping.  I don't excuse any of this
>> sick behavior, but I get it.  Someone gave me an article from the Buffalo
>> News on "The Theology of Addiction" (pretty superficial, as you can
>> imagine, but touching on sin, forgiveness, redemption).  I think a LOT more
>> work needs to be done on this, including denial as lying to (sinning,
>> bearing false witness against) self, neighbor, and God, etc.  I think there
>> are sermons and sermons in this, especially for my 12-step service on
>> Thursdays.
>> 
>> Ann
>> 
>> The Rev. Ann Markle
>> Buffalo, NY
>> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>> blog:  www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sally,
>>> I was speaking of The Episcopal Church.  Having grown up an Episcopalian in
>>> SC, and having my best friend's father removed as our parish priest for
>>> galloping alcoholism, and having grown up with two alcoholic parents, I do
>>> see a problem.  Here and in MD and now with PB's allowing the consecration
>>> of a drunk candidate to proceed, in TEC.  (My best friend's father passed
>>> out at the altar while celebrating an 8 AM Sunday service.  He was sent to
>>> another parish.  Eventually he was defrocked.)
>>> 
>>> I know nothing of the drinking habits in South Africa.  I don't think I
>>> commented on any entity besides TEC when I wrote my other post.  I believe
>>> what I said.  TEC has an alcohol problem.
>>> 
>>> Ginga
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 2:57 AM, Sally Davies <sally.davies at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> If you drive under the influence, you don't get to blame others for
>>>> accidents. It alters the probabilities completely.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm puzzled by the "we as a church have a problem with drink" idea. Is
>>> that
>>>> only in the USA, or elsewhere in the Communion? I'm sure not here.
>>>> Anglicans are less likely to be abstinent than other protestant church
>>>> members but as a group not more likely to abuse, I'm sure of that.
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps because of the strong evangelical influence in this part of the
>>>> world? And also that ideas of social responsibility attach to alcohol
>>> abuse
>>>> in particular. The entire society has severe problems with alcohol
>>>> abuse/dependency, so if Christians are involved with social ministry in a
>>>> spirit of love and empowerment (as most churches are), you have to be
>>>> sensitive to that.
>>>> 
>>>> What I'm not hearing in all this, is more about the qualities that Bp
>>> Cook
>>>> possessed which influenced others to overlook such an obvious disaster
>>>> waiting to happen, despite presumably having at least SOME objectivity.
>>>> Other than the speculation about wanting to make her someone else's
>>> problem
>>>> which sounds exceptionally bleak.
>>>> 
>>>> Sally D
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wednesday, 4 February 2015, Jim Handsfield <jhandsfield at att.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> In addition, she apparently was texting at the time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim Handsfield
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2015, at 10:31 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com
>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Furthermore, she left the scene for some period of time, variously
>>>>>> described as from twenty to forty-five minutes. That's inexcusable.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com
>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> According to the police report--which, I believe was based on
>>>> eyewitness
>>>>>>> accounts--she swerved into the bike lane and hit him from behind. I
>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>> seen anything to refute that claim. And if she was texting, that
>>> would
>>>>> be a
>>>>>>> very likely consequence.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On February 3, 2015, at 10:16 PM, "Mahoney, W. Michael" <
>>>>>>> wmmah at stoneledge.net <javascript:;> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com
>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> and a young man is dead because she drove while drunk.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do we really know this to be true beyond any doubt?  Could it be
>>> that
>>>> it
>>>>>>> was the cyclist's fault, in part or entirely?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One ought not drink and drive.  That's not the issue.  And by the
>>>>> available
>>>>>>> evidence, Bishop Cook ought not drink at all.  But that does not
>>> mean
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> she necessarily caused the accident.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One reason not to drink and drive is that you will almost
>>>> automatically
>>>>> be
>>>>>>> presumed to be the cause of any accident in which you are involved.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It may be that the evidence is clear but I haven't seen it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mike M.
>>> 