[Magdalen] Gap year (or more)

[Lynn Ronkainen]

And one more thing that stats  almond do not reveal- what about those who never finish/graduate high school? I'll bet they are not included in the percentages and they may well be the "face" of what many think are the marginally employees. The number of kids NOT graduating high school is staggering. 
Lynn 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 4, 2015, at 1:28 AM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:

I would have expected a difference of some significance. This buttresses my
point, that one certainly can get jobs out of high school, and not pauper
jobs either.
The statistics show the entire group.  That's nothing!  What is more, I am
not interested in unemployment stats: I am interested in employment stats.
That's the only thing that matters.

It goes without saying that a person who is a can-do, get-up-and-go
individual will not be unemployed.  And a person certainly is well able to
gain a competitive skill without going to college.

Citing unemployment stats is kind of misleading when you start out by
saying "Let's be clear."

James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Jim Guthrie <jguthrie at pipeline.com> wrote:
> 
> Let's be clear:
> 
> The unemployment rate for high school only (as well as high school plus
> college)
> is 6%.
> 
> For those with an Associates Degree it's 4.5%
> 
> For those with a Bachelor's it' 3.5%
> 
> See http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
> 
> It would seem that some might be happy to see some live in a cycle of
> unemployment and poverty. Certainly the 1% does -- after all, desperate
> people
> drive down wages for all and that increases their own wealth. So --
> support your
> local 1-percenters by proclaiming higher education is unnecessary. (High
> unemployment in general is in the 1-percenter's interest -- hence the
> dismay at
> getting the U.S. out of the "Great Recession" and GOP efforts to thwart the
> recovery, but we digress).
> 
> The numbers don’t lie, even in the face of random anecdotal thinking.
> 
> And the economy continues to change. Some people live in la-la-land
> thinking
> manufacturing with high paying jobs will somehow magically come back. Got
> news
> for you -- those jobs are gone, no matter what the local CofC is touting
> about
> "new manufacturers coming in" -- heavily subsidized by taxpayers and
> paying more
> than McDonald's but less than a living wage. And they tend to move on to
> the
> next sucker-city when the tax breaks run out.
> 
> There are far fewer auto repair shops than ever -- and those that remain
> tend to
> be larger affairs with educated mechanics. And they need to be with all
> the IC
> circuits and the like in a modern car.And consider the huge change that
> came
> about when foreign cars that last a decade or more started competing with
> Detroit cars designed with planned obsolescence in mind that fell apart in
> three
> years? The world is flat, as they say. Nostalgia for the 1950s is not
> going to "bring jobs back."
> 
> It's also worthwhile to look at income -- far higher in cities with
> well-educated people than those with less. Average income of college
> graduates
> in about $57,000 a year; high school -- $31,000. Further, as the numbers of
> educated people in a city or nation) increases by 10%, income overall (no
> matter
> what the education level) goes up 7.7%.
> 
> Places with a large, educated population offer a serendipity as well --
> educated
> people getting together tend to come up with all manner of ideas that can
> improve the public good -- lifting all boats as the saying goes.
> 
> Some European countries recognize this -- offering free tuition for their
> colleges and universities -- and we also know their poverty rates are low
> (which
> means the social safety net is cheaper per capita) in those countries.
> It's not
> a co-incidence.
> 
> I think telling anyone that a high school education is enough, or assuming
> kids
> are too stupid for college or that maybe they'll invent the "Next Big
> Thing" in
> their garage is simply wrong.
> 
> Encouraging a life of poverty in a modern, flat world is simply not
> something
> church folk who bemoan poverty everywhere should be doing, I think.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jim Guthrie
> 
> 
> http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
> -----Original Message----- From: James Oppenheimer-Crawford
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 8:42 PM
> To: Magdalen at herberthouse.org
> Subject: Re: [Magdalen] Gap year (or more)
> 
> A person can make a living in construction and automotive maintenance.
> 
> I worked for thirty years in psychiatric hospitals, and these were entirely
> run by the mental health therapy aides, directed by RNs and MDs.  The only
> qualification was the high school diploma. They did well.  I have no idea
> what sort of numbers of jobs like that still exist, since the State of New
> York has reduced its presence in the mental hygiene field, but the jobs are
> there.
> 
> It's not a good idea to say everyone needs to get a college diploma,
> because it simply isn't for everyone.
> 
> Nowadays, if there is doubt, the person can always go to a community
> college just to gain experience, and to see if this is workable for them.
> I've been there. It's a good interim step, and if that's not for you, it
> can save a lot of money and a lot of heartache.
> 
> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Lynn Ronkainen <houstonklr at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Jim G> That was the opinion when the "finish high school" movement,
>> complete with
>> 
>> requirements to get school-approve "working papers" to get a job (even
>>> after school ones) before age 18 became de rigeur during the Depression.
>>>> The ultimate goal then was to take kids who didn’t have families to >
>>> support out
>>> of the workforce during a time of high unemployment.
>> along a different line JIm, that I was reminded of with your info about
>> the depression... a dear friend who would be 105 if she was still alive
>> once told me when I commented how many white middle class kids never
>> graduate from high school (not to say they do not go on to do other things
>> or even college, but...) that the idea of HS graduation for all was
>> strictly a post WW2 phenomenon which included migrations into cities and
>> suburbs and the changing American life.  Reminded once again how small we
>> can sometimes think about things 'always being a certain way'... even if
>> 'always' is only one's own lifetime.
>> 
>> Jim G> Things are different now -- the only private-sector good jobs are
>> in information
>> 
>> and information technology -- and these will be closed to anyone without
>>> a reasonable college education.
>> And I would greatly disagree with you here Jim... many IT folks are
>> educated in HS now  or such wiz kids that they make their own way and
>> rules. Not all of them, but enough that it is apparent... and when they
>> rise in the ranks, they will be open to giving others who may have
>> followed
>> their path an opportunity.
>> 
>> Lynn
>> 
>> My email has changed to: houstonKLR at gmail.com
>> 
>> website: www.ichthysdesigns.com
>> 
>> When I stand before God at the end of my life I would hope that I have not
>> a single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything You gave
>> me."
>> attributed to Erma Bombeck
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Jim Guthrie" <jguthrie at pipeline.com>
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 2:21 PM
>> To: <magdalen at herberthouse.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Magdalen] Gap year (or more)
>> 
>> 
>> From: L Ronkainen
>> 
>>> 
>>> I think that post WW2 when the government educated so many GIs with the
>>> 
>>>> GIBill and changed the course of their world and our country, the idea
>>>> of
>>>> college for all became a goal. Never completely realized or necessary,
>>>> IMO,
>>> That was the opinion when the "finish high school" movement, complete
>>> with requirements to get school-approve "working papers" to get a job
>>> (even
>>> after school ones) before age 18 became de riguer during the Depression.
>>> 
>>> The ultimate goal then was to take kids who didn’t have families to
>>> support out of the workforce during a time of high unemployment.
>>> 
>>> Things are different now -- the only private-sector good jobs are in
>>> information and information technology -- and these will be closed to
>>> anyone without a reasonable college education.
>>> 
>>> Failing to complete college consigns people to the bottom of the economic
>>> ladder going forward.
>>> 
>>> And I'm not willing to think there's any obligation to provide public
>>> support for persons who decide that college isn’t necessary for them.
>>> Consigning people to poverty is not a reasonable thing to do I think.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jim
>> 
>>