[Magdalen] Bp. Wright OKs same sex weddings

[sally.davies at gmail.com]

Well, here's the amazing thing. The understanding of marriage, even in the
very conservative and cautious RC church, has changed tremendously in
recent decades.

A concept of personal commitment has replaced the centuries old assumption
that marriage was about the families, and it's now recognised that whilst
marrriages can produce and sustain children, that is not the primary
purpose - after all, many hetersexual marriages are incapable of producing
children and at times the partners know this before they marry.

For me the pertinent facts are just two: firstly, people do not choose to
be gay or lesbian, as Gail said people have lives not lifestyles.

And secondly, the problem is not sex, it is love. The moral and spiritual
expression of sexuality is a challenge for people today as it has always
been, whether we are gay or straight. That does not change. Promiscuity is
OUT. But love?? That is a game changer.

It is not for nothing that the ancient world revered Love as a deity in
itself - when it strikes you there is no fighting back. And I'm not talking
about passing lusts or forms of self delusion, but the real thing, love
between two people that lasts a lifetime and as Shakespeare says "alters
not where it alteration finds".

Sexuality is but an expression of "the marriage of true minds", a necessary
one for the vast majority of people who are sexually wired (a significant
minority is not and for them celibacy is fine though they may still value
constant companionship).

So there we have it. Scripture simplifies everything to do with sex, for
the simple reason that it comes from a culture and era that was utterly
patriarchal, where women were chattels and had no say in their own
marriages.

The Way of Jesus started an engine of change, fuelled by the Holy Spirit,
which began to make a difference immediately and has continued to do so,
though frequently opposed by the "rulers of this world" who seek oppression
and confinement (the "spirit of slavery").

And on the topic of spirit and spirituality, it may come as a surprise to
some (though not to me) that there are churches - we have one in South
Africa, in Pretoria - that are full on Evangelical and Charismatic,
on-fire, tongue talking, God praising, faith-storming spirit filled and
miracle expecting - that are also gay-welcoming with gay and/or lesbian
leadership.

In New Testament times, radical change in attitude followed when Jewish
leaders such as Peter and Paul saw the Holy Spirit poured out on
communities that they had considered outsiders or aliens. You realise that
whilst you may think you're defending God's Kingdom, your attitude is

I read about this church in a wonderful book introduced by Archbishop
Desmond, called "Aliens in the Household of God". Highly recommended!

Sally D

On Saturday, June 27, 2015, Zephonites--- via Magdalen <
magdalen at herberthouse.org> wrote:

> David
>
> If sexual intercourse is per Scripture for marriage and marriage  is for
> pro-creation, then I am afraid it certainly is relevant.
>
> Are you saying that when you perform a gay marriage that it is a celibate
> relationship?
>
> Blessings
> Martin
>
> In a message dated 27/06/2015 17:24:45 GMT Daylight Time,
> magdalen at herberthouse.org writes:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/27/2015 11:36:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight  Time,
> magdalen at herberthouse.org writes:
>
> David
>
> Well it  does actually.
>
> God calls same sex  intercourse an abomination  (Lev 18:22) >>>>
>
>
> But apparently, there is no SPECIFIC  scriptural  condemnation of
> same sex marriage.
>
> Marriage and  intercourse are not the same.  I thought we had  gotten
> beyond  this confusion, but I guess not.
>
>
>
>
> David  Strang.
>
>
>
>