[Magdalen] Ireland

[sally.davies at gmail.com]

This is a random thought apropos of nothing much, but it occurred to me
that if previous restraints on contraception achieved anything, it is to
expand a vigorous young population with a mind of its own, social media to
start its own conversations, and the critical mass to make a difference.

I'm still waiting for someone to spell out to me how I (were I a
conservative Catholic or Protestant) would experience a "disaster" if 1,
2....n gay and/or lesbian couples form lifelong bonds, support one
another's families, raise children, grow old together and so forth.

it's more likely that the gay or lesbian couples would be exposed to the
"disaster" that is modern marriage. I find it astonishing and a triumph of
hope over experience that same sex couples actually want to get married,
given the painful failure of so many heterosexual marriages. But hope is
what people do, and they do love as well, and if same sex couples want to
try for lifelong faithfulness...whatever else it might be I'm not getting
the "disaster" bit.

Perhaps the same people think allowing heterosexual remarriage is also a
disaster.

Sally D




On Mon, 25 May 2015 at 6:11 PM Ferdinand von Prondzynski (sms) <
f.von-prondzynski at rgu.ac.uk> wrote:

> I was in Ireland for the referendum, and the result, and it had a really
> major impact, and will continue to have. In many ways Ireland grew up over
> the past few weeks. One aspect of this is the way in which Irish Roman
> Catholics, many of whom continue to see themselves as such, have now told
> the church that they won't just form opinions as instructed by clergy. And
> that can only be good. The Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid
> Martin, is a smart man and may well be the man to lead people forward in
> the spirit of our times.
>
> But the Roman Catholic church was not the only one to come out of this on
> the wrong side of the argument. The Church of Ireland can also be justly
> criticised, in part for making all sorts of opaque but basically
> conservative statements, and in part for its response to the vote. The
> Bishops issued a statement on Saturday that ended with:
>
> 'We would now sincerely urge a spirit of public generosity, both from
> those for whom the result of the referendum represents triumph, and from
> those for whom it signifies disaster.'
>
> Their use of the words 'signifies disaster' is really not helpful - this
> should not be a 'disaster' for anyone, and it shouldn't be suggested to
> people to see it that way.
>
> Roger said:
>
> >As regards this referendum I think part of the blame lies with a former
> >Archbishop of Dublin, McQuaid.  He saw to it that bans on divorce and
> >"artificial" contraception, as well as the definition of marriage, were
> >written into the constitution when the republic was established.  As a
> >result the bans could only be lifted after a referendum, which meant
> >after significant public protest.
>
> Contraception was not prohibited in the constitution, just under an Act of
> Parliament that was repealed, though somewhat late in the day!
>
> Roger is right however about the legacy of John Charles McQuaid.
>
> >This is far more divisive, and happens later in the evolution of public
> >opinion, than the legislature simply allowing these developments for
> >those who want them.
>
> I don't think the referendum campaign was actually divisive. In fact, it
> seems to have brought out a lot of positive aspects of popular debate, and
> in fairness the 'No' campaigners reacted graciously to the result.
>
> Ferdinand
> >
>
>
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