[Magdalen] Gap year (or more)

Sat May 30 19:26:55 UTC 2015

finally  found the origin of this thread... and responding to Roger's
question about why/how?

I think that post WW2 when the government educated so many GIs with the
GIBill and changed the course of their world and our country, the idea of
college for all became a goal. Never completely realized or necessary, IMO,
but by the 1960s college *logically* followed high school probably because
the simple formula - graduate, graduate with job, marry was common and
possible for many graduates then (even if the initial majority may have
been mostly men). No need for any decisions about what 'kids' would 'do' if
they didn't go off to college (if college was a parental mandate) and the
road to and through college was paved with gold (in theory). Then by 1960
Vietnam was upon us and only a few years later a draft with broad and wide
deferments - college attendance, having children or one on the way (know
many older siblings of my childhood friends who made this happen) and
seminary to name only a few. For men, college during 'the draft' had the
benefit of deferrment+good job. Even when the basic college attendance
deferment was waning, if one was getting a degree in education, the
deferment was still solidly in place. Most college grads during those early
deferment years ended up with jobs and only served if they enlisted. I
still ponder the net result of those who went into teaching and seminaries
of all kinds just to avoid the draft... and those who graduated and went on
to run the major business of the country (having been deferred)  but I
digress. (when the draft lottery was instituted in 1970 the playing ground
was leveled and that also helped turn the tide against the war).  Those who
fell into this formula of immediate post high school college begat kids
whose parents figured 'the formula' worked.  America does seem to be
generally a 'let's get to the point' kind of society which would see a
formula that seemed to work repeated, like father (and maybe mother), like
son and daughter kind of thing. The concept of gap years exists in places
where social mores are different and populations that are also smaller than
the USA. The open-mindedness of the freedom to let one's kids just 'take
off' and often fund themselves is not a part of any majority of thought in
the varying social strata of the US, IMO.

an aside...Then there is the US slipping into the 'we must give all our
kids a college education' slope... which has begotten the predatory nature
of student loans, again my opinion of student loans in at least the last
10-15 years. The student loan system is broken from the top down and I
don't see any good end to it. My generation 'creatively cheated' when they
used bankruptcy to erase their loans - shame on those who did that and went
on to live lives of luxury...the government legislated - never again, a
good thing.  Today all manner of educational situations can participate in
the facilitating of student loans for their students and that has
contributed the most damage, also my opinion. Many of the institutions
would not even exist without their loan burdened students. I'm not sure if
government oversight was lax or just turned a blind eye to the potential
catastrophe that has erupted... just another path on the college journey
these days.  The engineer who graduates with a $60,000. debt burden  may be
able to climb out of that debt, but I'm pretty sure that the students that
borrowed tuition, books, fees and living expenses to get a 2 or 4 year
degree in basket weaving, or went to one of those hyped for-profit business
schools where you get out in 12 months, with a 'guaranteed job' and the
tuition is $50,000. are the bulk of those really struggling with loan debt.
Sigh.

Lynn

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Roger Stokes <roger.stokes65 at btinternet.com
> wrote:

> On 30/05/2015 00:26, Jay Weigel wrote:
>
>> Roger Stokes said:
>>
>> Glad you had a good time and that Samantha is enjoying life.  I read a
>> book
>> (College Unbound) a few months ago which questioned the value of a college
>> degree in cash terms.  We are seeing the same over here in the UK.  With
>> the increase in the number of higher education establishments, and the
>> consequent increase in the number of young people graduating from them,
>> the
>> cash value of a degree (in terms of higher salary and better prospects)
>> diminishes as the debt incurred in getting it increases.
>>
>>
>> Which led me to contemplate something I've thought about increasingly in
>> recent years, particularly since S/O and I were discussing our college
>> years the other night and he stated that he was in no way, shape or form
>> ready for university when he arrived there. Nor was I, and I floundered
>> horribly for several years before finally giving up and dropping out
>> altogether.
>>
>
> One of the points made in the book is the value of a gap year toi achieve
> some maturity and possible discernment about what the young person values
> as important.  I would also observe that going straight from a very
> directed school environment to a college which requires more
> self-discipline can be very demanding.
>
>  I once asked my mother why she and my dad had pushed me so hard
>> to go when I really didn't want to at the time, and her answer was that I
>> didn't seem to have any idea of what I did want to do, so they thought I'd
>> be better off in school. Yikes! That sounds like horrible reasoning to
>> me.....! And they had to pay for it, too.
>>
>
> I must admit I drifted into university (via what I knew would be only a
> few months working) because it was the easy option and put off deciding
> what I wanted to do.  The choice of subjects was made in the same way, but
> that's another story as in hindsight I could have chosen better had I not
> assumed I needed practical skills for an engineering degree.
>
>  I honestly would have preferred
>> to try my hand at the working world, even if it didn't pay very much, or
>> do
>> some traveling, but that wasn't even a consideration back then. The
>> concept
>> of a "gap year" is completely foreign to Americans, which might be one
>> reason why many American young people have such narrow horizons and frames
>> of reference.
>>
>
> It was alien to Brits back when I left school as well.  The only reason I
> had that few months in work was because I took university entrance in
> December and could not start there until the following October.  America is
> also a very large country so you can explore different regions while using
> the same currency and not needing a passport.
>
>  What's the difference and why do we push our kids into things they might
>> not be ready for? Why can't we let THEM figure it out?
>>
>
> Any answers anybody?
>
> Roger
>

-- 

www.ichthysdesigns.com