[Magdalen] Drug research.

[Marion Thompson]

I don't know why some of these posts are sent at all, but this one, 
fully 24 hrs after the start of the thread, seems  gratuitous and  quite 
unnecessary.

Marion, a pilgrim


On 8/27/2016 4:09 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
> Pot calling the kettle black?
>
> You know what you were doing.
>
> On Aug 26, 2016 3:43 PM, "Allan Carr" <allanc25 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> My mother had paranoid schizophrenia and was treated with shock
> treatments, before thorazine was available. She hated those treatments and
> I think they made her worse. Since she was in a mental asylum, indigent,
> and not a US citizen, she was deported back to her home country where she
> died of cancer a few years later. I was sixteen when she was deported and
> living with an uncle. I never saw her again.
>> I wish she had been born a few years later when thorazine was available.
> I wanted to give the group more information about thorazine, not nitpick
> you. You really need to get over yourself.
>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2016, at 11:02 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thank you, Ann, for bring the matter up.  Perhaps it would be good to
> say a
>>> bit more.
>>>
>>> Disagreement is not the issue at all.  It's that the original post might
>>> have something questionable in it, and this is brought up by someone
> else.
>>> A sharpshooter is one who finds some mistake in the text of another and
>>> instead of pointing it out the person involved, blats it to the entire
>>> list. You can almost sense the glee in their text. Of course, if
>>> confronted, they just say, "I was only pointing out the facts."  I have
> to
>>> say I am very seldom the target of these, because, having been attacked
> a
>>> number of times, I know I have to have my facts straight. And I
> certainly
>>> did recently, the claims of someone, based on the sterling research
> source
>>> of Wikipedia notwithstanding. But I see it happen to others on this list
>>> all the time, and it is almost never helpful. (Ahem -- in my opinion
>>> anyway, it seems like it just derails the discussion for little purpose)
>>>
>>> It happens all the time: someone makes some point in a post, and then
>>> someone else posts to the entire list that the person had some factual
>>> mistake in their post.  This needless interference distracts from what
> the
>>> other person was trying to say, and of course it lessens the likelihood
>>> that that other person will speak up in the future.  Let's face it. We
> all
>>> enjoy that rush of having the real facts.  When we can say, "Whoa! You
> got
>>> it a bit wrong there, but I on the other hand, have the actual truth.
> Hey,
>>> here are the URLs to prove it!" And in many cases, the matter is
> virtually
>>> irrelevant to the discussion matter, but is a major distractor to
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> Certainly there are cases where the information might be potentially
>>> harmful if not remedied immediately, and one might wish to bring that up
>>> publicly, but that's usually not the case here.  And of course, there's
> the
>>> matter of the person who sees something they know (or think they
> "know") is
>>> not right, but does not wish to take the time to send a private email.
> If
>>> they do that, there is a classy way to do it, and a not so classy way
> to do
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I've been guilty of that, and I'm sorry I have. I would like to think I
>>> know a little better.  I have been really trying to be a better poster,
> and
>>> to a large extent, I think I've improved. I try to make comments off
> list.
>>> It doesn't take that long and it's unnecessary to air our dirty laundry
> in
>>> public -- unless our main desire IS attacking the other person, of
> course.
>>> In some cases, I think the people involved are in a lot of pain and are
> not
>>> having a very good life, and they feel a lot of rage, and sometimes it
> just
>>> gets spilled out in an attack email. We are all actually doing what we
> can.
>>> Every one of us is fighting some kind of battle.
>>>
>>> I don't mean to condemn folks who choose a different way of making
>>> corrections, but I do wish they would think a bit more about the pall it
>>> puts on the entire list whenever that happens.  For everyone who knows
> the
>>> sender, there are a number of lurkers who are saying, "Good Lord! I will
>>> NEVER  post to this list!" We know how many folks just read but never
> post.
>>> I submit that there's a reason for that.
>>>
>>> The listowners can confirm or deny that our numbers grow smaller year by
>>> year.
>>>
>>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>>> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not
> preserved,
>>> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu>
> wrote:
>>>> Jim, I'm not sure what you mean by "sharpshooter."  Does this mean
> anyone
>>>> who dares disagree with you?  I realize you've worked in mental
> health.  I
>>>> also realize you cite one anecdotal incident, which doesn't mean
> Thorazine
>>>> for pregnancy was common medical practice.  We also don't know what
> other
>>>> kinds of symptoms this RN you knew was exhibiting, many of which might
> have
>>>> indicated prescription of an antipsychotic med.  Margaret, who has
> worked
>>>> in medicine/academia for her career, might have something informed to
> say
>>>> about the origins of Thorazine, as well.  My impression is that this
> was a
>>>> factual discussion, not "sharpshooting," whatever that is.  Sorry you
>>>> experienced it as some kind of assault, but just sayin', it didn't look
>>>> like that to a disinterested observer who likes you both a lot.
>>>>
>>>> Ann
>>>>
>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
>>>> Buffalo, NY
>>>> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:30 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
>>>> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I saw that. It's aimed at the psychiatric angle, so it doesn't talk
> about
>>>>> the other stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point was that many medicines started out in a very different
>>>> category
>>>>> than that in which they became well known.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am really tired of sharpshooters. Not surprised, but tired.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>>>>> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not
> preserved,
>>>>> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Allan Carr <allanc25 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpromazine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the section headed "History", it was developed as a better
>>>> alternative
>>>>>> to a drug used to calm surgical patients. It was quickly tested in a
>>>>> mental
>>>>>> hospital, with a dramatic effect on a manic patient who was
> discharged
>>>> in
>>>>>> three weeks.
>>>>>> It was marketed as Thorazine, replaced such treatments as shock
> therapy
>>>>>> and psychosurgery and quickly emptied mental hospitals of patients
> with
>>>>> all
>>>>>> sorts of psychoses.
>>>>>> It also led to the discovery of antidepressants.
>>>>>> If I recall correctly, there are 30,000 homeless living on the
> streets
>>>> of
>>>>>> Los Angeles, many of them psychotic. I'm not sure if most of them
>>>> reject
>>>>>> treatment with drugs like Thorazine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:25 PM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thorazine was the first anti-psychotic (early 1950s)
>>>>>>> but IIRC was developed with the hope that it would treat malaria.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In its rudimentary clinical trials it was found to have other
>>>>> potentials.
>>>>>>> -M, who remembers patients with Tardive dyskinesia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 17, 2016, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
>>>>>>> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No.