[Magdalen] No marriage equality for Anglican Church of Canada

[Lynn Ronkainen]

From: "Molly Wolf" <lupa at kos.net>
> You'll never get this past the bridal industry

...remembering when I visited London (suburb stay) and seeing all the brides 
'decked' out in gowns, with Tuxedoed companion coming out of the 'city 
hall'.

Of course there is all the 'other stuff' besides the clothes : )

Lynn

website: www.ichthysdesigns.com

When I stand before God at the end of my life I would hope that I have not a 
single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything You gave me." 
attributed to Erma Bombeck
 "Either Freedom for all or stop talking about Freedom at all" from a talk 
by Richard Rohr

--------------------------------------------------
, although you're absolutely right.<sigh>
>
> Molly
>
> The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no 
> other way. -- Mark Twain
>
>> On Jul 12, 2016, at 2:19 PM, Gail Edwards 
>> <gailedwards5.anglican at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As many of you will remember, the diocese of New Westminster (Vancouver 
>> and surrounding area) voted to authorize the blessing of unions between 
>> two people of the same gender after a long and rancorous process that 
>> stretched over three synods.  A same-gendered couple may be married in a 
>> civil ceremony, and then have their marriages blessed in church, but 
>> cannot be married by the church according to the rite authorised by the 
>> marriage canon of the ACC.
>>
>> It is my opinion that this model should be adopted for all couples. The 
>> ACC is not an established church, and needs to relinquish authority to 
>> conduct the civil component of the ceremony. Twenty-nine years ago, my 
>> spouse  and I were one of the very last couples in British Columbia to be 
>> married by banns, rather than by marriage licence (which caused no end of 
>> trouble when I went to change my driver's licence and other official 
>> documents - "Banned??!!! Your marriage is banned," said the clerk. "I've 
>> never heard of such a thing."). Shortly after, the legislation was 
>> changed, and a civil licence was required for the marriage to be 
>> registered by the province. The banns can be read in church, but have no 
>> legal force, and aren't a substitute for the licence.
>>
>> Civil marriage facilitates the state's need for registration and 
>> record-keeping for the purpose of vital statistics, and assists in the 
>> regulation of taxation and inheritance and the "legitimation" of 
>> children. When Britain instituted birth, marriage and death registration 
>> in the 19th century, it was part of a grand project of quantifying civil 
>> society to assist public policy - much like the implementation of regular 
>> decennial censuses. The state, not the church, became responsible for 
>> keeping track of citizens, but the older model of parish registration of 
>> these events (or some of these events some of the time, as anyone who has 
>> ever done genealogical research knows) continued to be a parochial 
>> responsibility.
>>
>> While I very much hoped that the amendment to the marriage canon would be 
>> adopted by General Synod yesterday, I would far rather that the ACC 
>> disentangle civil marriage, which is legal for all couples in Canada 
>> wishing to commit matrimony, from a ceremony in which a couple could come 
>> before family, friends and their faith community to pledge a faithful 
>> covenant to one another and receive God's blessing on the relationship, 
>> upheld by those who are called to witness.
>>
>> Gail, in Vancouver
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 12, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, this was already happening here in the US, as well. Individual 
>>> bishops were giving permission, and some clergy were simply performing 
>>> the ceremonies in other places than Episcopal churches.
>>>
>>>> On Jul 12, 2016, at 12:08 AM, Molly Wolf <lupa at kos.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The bishops of Ottawa and Niagara have already announced that same-sex 
>>>> marriage -- which is not mentioned in the national marriage canons --  
>>>> will be permitted in their dioceses.  Many other dioceses will likely 
>>>> follow suit.  This weakens the position of the national church.
>>>>
>>>> I expect an especially bitter fight in my diocese (Ontario).  Pray for 
>>>> our bishop, +Michael Oulton.
>>>>
>>>> Molly
>>>> fed up and aching
>>>>
>>>> The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in 
>>>> no other way. -- Mark Twain
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Gail Edwards 
>>>>> <gailedwards5.anglican at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dividing lines based on missionary activity in the west still shapes 
>>>>> diocesan "personalities" in my opinion - SPG/CMS, urban/rural.
>>>>>
>>>>> The painful thing for me was hearing justification for exclusion by 
>>>>> those who themselves have been harmed and excluded by the church.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gail, emerging from the corner, desolate in Vancouver
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Molly Wolf <lupa at kos.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a very mixed bag but on the whole, I'd say that the ACC is more 
>>>>>> conservative than TEC.  It was never the Established Church, but at 
>>>>>> least in Ontario (the weightiest of the Anglo province since) it 
>>>>>> might just as well have been.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I sit ready for correction.  Marion? Susan? Gail?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Molly
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn 
>>>>>> in no other way. -- Mark Twain
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2016, at 11:31 PM, M J _Mike_ Logsdon <mjl at ix.netcom.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where did I get the idea that the ACofC was always more progressive 
>>>>>>> than TEC?????
>>>>
>