[Magdalen] In Christ Alone

[sally.davies at gmail.com]

I think God can be, even must be, wrathful (wroth?) against sin.

After all, we can feel that way too, though more often against other
persons or groups than against ourselves, often being oblivious to our own
small cruelties and destructions.

For instance when we see those little broken bodies from Syria, broken,
burned, drowned and now poisoned - whose heart does not rise in wrath as
well as in anguish? Doesn't the sight of Paul Ryan's smug face as he takes
healthcare away from the needy and hands the saved money to the ultra rich
make most of us burn with anger? I can scarcely bear to look at our corrupt
dancing president... and don't even start with those whose torment animals
for amusement.

I'm not talking about being judgemental, just about how I react emotionally
and identify with the victims.

I also struggle with that hymn for the reasons mentioned, and usually don't
sing those lines about wrath being "satisfied" which is a particularly ugly
word in that context.

The only way I work it out is to accept that the theology of the cross is a
mystery to us, but not to God. We can explain it through substitution,
through ransom, through identification, and more nuanced theories...I will
go with it until my mind fails which doesn't take long.


’Tis mystery all! The Immortal dies!
Who can explore His strange design?
In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love Divine!
’Tis mercy all! let earth adore,
Let angel minds inquire no more.
’Tis mercy all! let earth adore,
Let angel minds inquire no more.



Sally D


On Tue, 09 May 2017 at 9:33 PM James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:

> We talk about God's wrath, but we do not generally talk about why God is
> wrathful.
>
> Why do we think that God ought to have wrath?
>
> I've been turning this one over in my head for a long time.  In my
> experience, people talk about a wrathful God, but they do not talk about
> why God would be wrathful in the first place.  I personally don't believe
> that the type of God we are taught to believe in as described in scripture
> is ever filled with wrath at us.
>
> It seems to me that, no matter what we have ever done, God has complete
> understanding of why we do whatever we do. Understanding why people do what
> they do generally replaces wrath with compassion, a sentiment so often
> exhibited by Jesus.  He didn't have any question of why we do what we do;
> he understands completely and has compassion for us.
>
> Wrath comes from the misunderstanding of an action, "He's just being
> willful!" "She's doing that just because she's so evil!"
>
>
>
> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
>
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:09 AM, Simon Kershaw <simon at kershaw.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > I think God's allowed to be "wrathful" depending on quite what that means
> > and what the consequences are. Are parents allowed to be frustrated with
> > their children's choices? But celebrating and singing about God's wrath
> is
> > another thing.
> >
> > But the real bugbear is perhaps the word "satisfied". God's "wrath" is
> > "satisfied" by the death of Jesus on the Cross.
> >
> > That's not something I accept, and nor do I feel that it is good
> > evangelism. The gospel message is not about hellfire and damnation, but
> > about having life in all its fullness, as we heard on Sunday.
> >
> > You can instead sing "the love of God is magnified" or perhaps "the love
> > of God is satisfied". But the author, Stuart Townend, will not, as I
> > understand it, allow those words to be printed instead of the words he
> > wrote, and as he is the copyright owner the law probably supports his
> > position. However, it is hopefully not a copyright violation to ignore
> the
> > printed words and sing something else. Or to print the alternative line
> > alongside the original and suggest to people that they sing it.
> >
> > simon
> >
> >
> > James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
> > > I was thinking how horrid the words were, happy to see I'm not alone.
> A
> > > wrathful God is heresy. To say nothing of a deity out of control. I
> don't
> > > really think that's what is going on, although, who knows, I could turn
> > > out
> > > to be wrong, and God is not much different from Osama bin Laden. I
> don't
> > > think so, but I seem to be a minority these days. That certainly is the
> > > driving force behind a lot of the stuff which passes for theology in
> our
> > > political scene.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Simon Kershaw
> > simon at kershaw.org.uk
> > Saint Ives, Cambridgeshire
> >
> >
>