[Magdalen] Alfie Evans has died

[Charles Wohlers]

Agreed, although I do believe it has ended of its own accord.
Pubmates, please do not post on this thread any more.

Chad Wohlers
Woodbury, VT USA
chadwohl at satucket.com



-----Original Message----- 
From: Jay Weigel
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 9:12 PM
To: magdalen at herberthouse.org
Subject: Re: [Magdalen] Alfie Evans has died

I think for starters the pubkeeper declares it closed and syas further
comment will not be tolerated.

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:59 AM Sally Davies <sally.davies at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh dear, I so agree! And it’s been so long since we had to do anything of
> the sort that I can’t remember how...
>
> Will check a bit later when I have access to a different device
>
> Sally D
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 03 May 2018, at 15:47, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Pubkeeper..please close or delete this thread. i did not mean to cause
> such
> > controversy or cause two such respected members to leave. Our numbers 
> > are
> > few enough as it is.
> >
> >> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:38 AM, Molly Wolf <lupa at kos.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Please unsubscribe me from the Magdalen list.
> >>
> >> The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in
> no
> >> other way. -- Mark Twain
> >>
> >>> On May 3, 2018, at 12:26 AM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
> >> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> How the heck do you know that? The answer of course is that you don't.
> I
> >> am
> >>> now wondering if someone hacked Ms Wolf's account.
> >>>
> >>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
> >>> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not
> preserved,
> >>> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Molly Wolf <lupa at kos.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Brain death is not the same as brain turning into melt water.  The
> girl
> >>>> who survived had a brain.  Alfie didn’t.  False analogy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Molly
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn 
> >>>> in
> >> no
> >>>> other way. -- Mark Twain
> >>>>
> >>>>> On May 3, 2018, at 12:07 AM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
> >>>> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I read of a case where a child was declared brain dead, and yet the
> >>>> parents
> >>>>> did not want to take her off life support. They felt they detected
> some
> >>>>> signs of response.  An independent person came in and also detected
> >> signs
> >>>>> of sentience, and so continued to ask similar questions over and 
> >>>>> over
> >> in
> >>>>> order to see if the responses were a fluke or a valid response to 
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> questions. He concluded that there was some thought process going 
> >>>>> on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The hospital refused to allow her to remain there because they
> maintain
> >>>>> that she was dead. The parents managed to get another hospital to
> take
> >>>> her,
> >>>>> and there was a nurse there who was bullied by other staff, like,
> "How
> >>>> can
> >>>>> you perform procedures on that dead girl?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The young woman has been stabilized and moved to an apartment. Cue
> the
> >>>>> questions of who is paying for this, since I don't really care about
> >> that
> >>>>> stuff...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The implications for organ harvesting are not lost on the med staff.
> >> The
> >>>>> possibility that they are harvesting organs from a person not yet
> dead,
> >>>> is
> >>>>> horrifying and virtually unthinkable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
> >>>>> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not
> >> preserved,
> >>>>> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:43 AM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There was an article in the New Yorker recently:
> >>>>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/05/what-does-
> >> it-mean-to-die
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The suggestion that physicians, men and women who cherish their own
> >>>>>> intelligence, would think a non-thinking person is not alive, has
> >> stayed
> >>>>>> with me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I also remember my shock at hearing a physician say he’d never
> >> medicate
> >>>> a
> >>>>>> patient so heavily that the patient was unable to pray. Protocols 
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> damned, I guess.
> >>>>>> -M
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Monday, April 30, 2018, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> me that doctors never have all the answers. Also, this was a black
> >>>> child,
> >>>>>>> and the hospital did not take into account, apparently (nor did 
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>> legal
> >>>>>>> system) the feelings and attitudes of African-Americans toward
> death
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>> the dying process.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
>