[Magdalen] Kaeton's commentary

Sun Jan 4 20:04:31 UTC 2015

The point was that we say stuff when the target is not looking that we
would never say when they were, out of some kind of respect.  It's like
it's okay to say what you will if the person's not present, I suppose.

James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things better
for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your time
on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Marion Thompson <marionwhitevale at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On a different list at a different time in a different circumstance, I ran
> into the hard wall of "OMG You are such an idiot!  What WERE you
> THINKING?"  As if the person isn't thinking that for him/herself!
> I am not prepared to jump on the wagon of that sort of response, which
> only heaps coals on the head of one who is already gravely wounded at a
> profound level.
>
> Marion, a pilgrim    ... today my sail I lift ....
> On 1/3/2015 9:38 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
>
>> I was just observing the general flow of conversation and the surfacing of
>> a lot of emotions from various points of view, and it occurred to me that
>> we can say all kinds of stuff when the person involved is somewhat
>> distant.
>> After all, whatever we might say, the person who is the object of the
>> discussion isn't here, so what we say has no impact on her. If the
>> individual were a sometime contributor to the conversation here, I suspect
>> that the choice of words would be a bit different.  there is a bit of
>> difference between, "OMG! WHAT an idiot!  What WAS she THINKING?"  and
>> "OMG! You are such an idiot! What WERE you THINKING!"
>> I know I interact entirely differently when the person is someone I know
>> personally. And I know that shouldn't be so.
>> Then I thought to myself, "I wonder if this individual is a lurker on this
>> list."
>> And for those who are thinking of saying you would have said exactly the
>> same , etc., etc. -- please don't.
>>
>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>> *“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things
>> better
>> for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your
>> time
>> on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Civil law and ecclesiastical law will direct consequences on Heather
>>> Cook.
>>> We do not have the whole story, and we do know that she left the scene of
>>> an accident in which someone was killed.  This is what she did.  No one
>>> can
>>> say that what she did is okay or doesn't matter. What she did is
>>> definitely
>>> not okay and it matters in zillions of ways.  What she did is utterly
>>> wrong.   I don't think she did what she did on purpose.  I do not believe
>>> she had evil intent.  For me, that is all for the law to discover and
>>> judge.
>>>
>>> I do believe, as Elizabeth Kaeton wrote in so many words, that we have
>>> taken vows to respond to her as a human being and to give compassion and
>>> I
>>> would say love as we are able.  This is what we have promised in our
>>> baptismal vows.  To love one another, not because of our actions, but
>>> unconditionally because we are all sinful children of God.  For me, it
>>> requires that I separate the person (being) from the action (doing).
>>> When
>>> I have done terrible actions, I have been thankful that other human
>>> beings
>>> were there to love me (who I am), in spite of what I did.
>>>
>>> Ginga
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Thanks for posting this, Ginga.  It's a good reminder of our human
>>>> frailty, especially in the face of sudden crisis. I like, of course, to
>>>> think that I would never drive away from an accident I had caused. But I
>>>> have also remembered an incident from about 12 years ago and how badly I
>>>> behaved.
>>>>
>>>> Without going into detail, let me just say that I was stopped behind a
>>>> truck as we waited for a stopped school bus in the oncoming lane.
>>>>
>>> Suddenly
>>>
>>>> I saw in my rearview mirror a truck top the rise and come barreling down
>>>>
>>> on
>>>
>>>> me at full speed. He clearly wasn't going to be able to stop, and I had
>>>> nowhere to go.
>>>> Well, I wasn't injured, but my car was totalled. But what I remember
>>>> with
>>>> great regret was that when the poor driver rushed up to apologise  and
>>>>
>>> make
>>>
>>>> sure I was all right, I screamed at him, "You idiot!! Didn't you see
>>>> that
>>>> we were all stopped??!!
>>>> His brakes had failed, and he was probably as upset as I was, but I had
>>>> thought I might be killed, and my nice persona went right out the
>>>> window.
>>>> I can't be sure of what I would do if I were to cause a serious
>>>>
>>> accident...
>>>
>>>> On January 3, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Mark Harris has written of how irrationally human beings can act in
>>>>> this
>>>>> sort of horrific experience.
>>>>> This is a note about Heather Cook the human being, who comes from a
>>>>> long
>>>>> line of human beings related in turn to a whole host of living beings
>>>>>
>>>> who
>>>
>>>> when confronted with extraordinary threat reacts in ways not always up
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>
>>>> frontal lobe human ethical standards.
>>>>>
>>>>>  http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/2015/01/when-
>>> terrible-terrifying-and-awful.html?spref=fb
>>>
>>>> I feel enormous compassion for Heather Cook...I just can't help
>>>>>
>>>> myself.  I
>>>
>>>> know she is in need of pastoral compassion.  I pray she is receiving
>>>>>
>>>> that.
>>>
>>>> I hesitate to say this, because I do not want to offend those who think
>>>>> otherwise.  But, no matter what she has done, and much we don't know,
>>>>>
>>>> she
>>>
>>>> is still our sister in Christ.
>>>>> And, of course, the family and friends of Tom Palermo and those who
>>>>>
>>>> witness
>>>>
>>>>> this god-awful accident, even we who inhabit the Pub, each and all have
>>>>> need of the very same pastoral compassion.
>>>>> Ginga
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:51 PM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And people do stupid and unexplained things when they're
>>>>>> freaking out. Not everybody's capable of doing just the right,
>>>>>> mature thing under every circumstance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had a case where a teenager gave birth in a bathroom
>>>>>> stall and walked away. The Commonwealth accused her of
>>>>>> all kinds of evil stuff, but a psychiatrist, serving as an
>>>>>> expert witness, explained very clearly that women who've
>>>>>> just given birth aren't always capable of thinking clearly.
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>> -M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>