[Magdalen] Kaeton's commentary

Sun Jan 4 20:19:47 UTC 2015

I was thinking, "but not on this list," but then I realized it has happened
to me a few times pretty much like that. With profanity too.

Even I think that my reaction doesn't count, I guess.

James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things better
for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your time
on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Marion Thompson <marionwhitevale at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sadly, in those words or very similar, it happens.
>
> Marion
> On 1/4/2015 3:02 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
>
>> That is supposed to be an example of what NOT to say.
>>
>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>> *“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things
>> better
>> for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your
>> time
>> on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Marion Thompson <
>> marionwhitevale at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  On a different list at a different time in a different circumstance, I
>>> ran
>>> into the hard wall of "OMG You are such an idiot!  What WERE you
>>> THINKING?"  As if the person isn't thinking that for him/herself!
>>> I am not prepared to jump on the wagon of that sort of response, which
>>> only heaps coals on the head of one who is already gravely wounded at a
>>> profound level.
>>>
>>> Marion, a pilgrim    ... today my sail I lift ....
>>> On 1/3/2015 9:38 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
>>>
>>>  I was just observing the general flow of conversation and the surfacing
>>>> of
>>>> a lot of emotions from various points of view, and it occurred to me
>>>> that
>>>> we can say all kinds of stuff when the person involved is somewhat
>>>> distant.
>>>> After all, whatever we might say, the person who is the object of the
>>>> discussion isn't here, so what we say has no impact on her. If the
>>>> individual were a sometime contributor to the conversation here, I
>>>> suspect
>>>> that the choice of words would be a bit different.  there is a bit of
>>>> difference between, "OMG! WHAT an idiot!  What WAS she THINKING?"  and
>>>> "OMG! You are such an idiot! What WERE you THINKING!"
>>>> I know I interact entirely differently when the person is someone I know
>>>> personally. And I know that shouldn't be so.
>>>> Then I thought to myself, "I wonder if this individual is a lurker on
>>>> this
>>>> list."
>>>> And for those who are thinking of saying you would have said exactly the
>>>> same , etc., etc. -- please don't.
>>>>
>>>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>>>> *“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things
>>>> better
>>>> for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your
>>>> time
>>>> on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Civil law and ecclesiastical law will direct consequences on Heather
>>>>
>>>>> Cook.
>>>>> We do not have the whole story, and we do know that she left the scene
>>>>> of
>>>>> an accident in which someone was killed.  This is what she did.  No one
>>>>> can
>>>>> say that what she did is okay or doesn't matter. What she did is
>>>>> definitely
>>>>> not okay and it matters in zillions of ways.  What she did is utterly
>>>>> wrong.   I don't think she did what she did on purpose.  I do not
>>>>> believe
>>>>> she had evil intent.  For me, that is all for the law to discover and
>>>>> judge.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do believe, as Elizabeth Kaeton wrote in so many words, that we have
>>>>> taken vows to respond to her as a human being and to give compassion
>>>>> and
>>>>> I
>>>>> would say love as we are able.  This is what we have promised in our
>>>>> baptismal vows.  To love one another, not because of our actions, but
>>>>> unconditionally because we are all sinful children of God.  For me, it
>>>>> requires that I separate the person (being) from the action (doing).
>>>>> When
>>>>> I have done terrible actions, I have been thankful that other human
>>>>> beings
>>>>> were there to love me (who I am), in spite of what I did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ginga
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Thanks for posting this, Ginga.  It's a good reminder of our human
>>>>>
>>>>>> frailty, especially in the face of sudden crisis. I like, of course,
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> think that I would never drive away from an accident I had caused.
>>>>>> But I
>>>>>> have also remembered an incident from about 12 years ago and how
>>>>>> badly I
>>>>>> behaved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Without going into detail, let me just say that I was stopped behind a
>>>>>> truck as we waited for a stopped school bus in the oncoming lane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Suddenly
>>>>>
>>>>>  I saw in my rearview mirror a truck top the rise and come barreling
>>>>>> down
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  on
>>>>>
>>>>>  me at full speed. He clearly wasn't going to be able to stop, and I
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> nowhere to go.
>>>>>> Well, I wasn't injured, but my car was totalled. But what I remember
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> great regret was that when the poor driver rushed up to apologise  and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  make
>>>>>
>>>>>  sure I was all right, I screamed at him, "You idiot!! Didn't you see
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> we were all stopped??!!
>>>>>> His brakes had failed, and he was probably as upset as I was, but I
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> thought I might be killed, and my nice persona went right out the
>>>>>> window.
>>>>>> I can't be sure of what I would do if I were to cause a serious
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  accident...
>>>>>
>>>>>  On January 3, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Mark Harris has written of how irrationally human beings can act in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> sort of horrific experience.
>>>>>>> This is a note about Heather Cook the human being, who comes from a
>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> line of human beings related in turn to a whole host of living beings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  who
>>>>>> when confronted with extraordinary threat reacts in ways not always up
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> frontal lobe human ethical standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/2015/01/when-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> terrible-terrifying-and-awful.html?spref=fb
>>>>>
>>>>>  I feel enormous compassion for Heather Cook...I just can't help
>>>>>> myself.  I
>>>>>> know she is in need of pastoral compassion.  I pray she is receiving
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>> I hesitate to say this, because I do not want to offend those who
>>>>>> think
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> otherwise.  But, no matter what she has done, and much we don't know,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  she
>>>>>> is still our sister in Christ.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, of course, the family and friends of Tom Palermo and those who
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  witness
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  this god-awful accident, even we who inhabit the Pub, each and all
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> need of the very same pastoral compassion.
>>>>>>> Ginga
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:51 PM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  And people do stupid and unexplained things when they're
>>>>>>>> freaking out. Not everybody's capable of doing just the right,
>>>>>>>> mature thing under every circumstance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We had a case where a teenager gave birth in a bathroom
>>>>>>>> stall and walked away. The Commonwealth accused her of
>>>>>>>> all kinds of evil stuff, but a psychiatrist, serving as an
>>>>>>>> expert witness, explained very clearly that women who've
>>>>>>>> just given birth aren't always capable of thinking clearly.
>>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>> -M
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>