[Magdalen] Epiphany

[James Oppenheimer-Crawford]

I ran into this article, written by a man who sounds somewhat
fundamentalist, and yet his conclusion is startlingly refreshing, based on
a word study on diakonos.
Do not be put off by his picture.
;=)
http://godswordtowomen.org/Fees2.htm



James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things better
for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your time
on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Sally Davies <sally.davies at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I read Ann's comment as a spectrum thing, meaning that it's not an 'either
> you understand or you don't'. There are different ways to understand Paul -
> and I've been through a few shades on the spectrum. There are always things
> I feel I understand more now, and things I still don't understand and
> probably never will. And yes, things I don't like and probably never will.
>
> One book that really changed my perspective was "The Gospel According to
> Paul" by Robin Griffith-Jones. I don't read a lot of scholarship and
> generall feel rather ignorant of the various controversies, but this book
> was an eye opener.
>
> Even if it could be shown that Paul definitely wrote the passages which
> have been so painfully used and abused against women's dignity and
> equality, I would still revere him for the one or two stunningly beautiful
> and profound passages to which I return again and again. When he wrote
> "there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free", he could
> have been describing himself - a beautiful, wild, confusing, frustrating
> mix of all those characteristics.
>
> For instance, his words on love, and his word-picture of the Cosmic Christ
> "the image of the invisible God", as well as the lovely doxologies which I
> daresay were in common usage in the early church but have been saved and
> preserved for us by Paul.
>
> I also love the way he never gave up in his own life, struggling to
> understand more and to love more - despite coming from what seems like a
> very legalistic, judgemental and unloving background. When his authentic
> personal voice is speaking from the page, it's always fresh, raw and so
> real it could be happening right now, somewhere in the world. In fact, it
> probably is.
>
> I guess that in life he wasn't easy to get along with; a number of great
> teachers seem to have outright fallen out with him or at least concluded to
> go their separate ways. And he's still not easy to get along with now. But
> so, so worth it.
>
> Sally D
>
>
>
> On Friday, 9 January 2015, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ann, I apologize for misreading your earlier post. I didn't realize you
> > were just responding to Jay, and I took your comment to indicate that
> folks
> > who aren't fond of Paul only feel that way because they don't understand
> > him...as more enlightened people do. And I heard that as rather
> > condescending.
> > Grace
> >
> > > On Jan 8, 2015, at 2:06 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Grace, it's obvious that mileage does vary on this list - about Paul
> and
> > > everything else!  But anyone who doesn't understand might grow in
> wisdom
> > by
> > > trying to understand. - and Jay said clearly she DIDN'T understand (why
> > > Paul got into the canon of scripture).  I always learned (from very
> wise
> > > teachers) that it's better to wrestle with scripture and try to better
> > > understand, than categorically dismiss.  And of course, it's ok to
> > disagree
> > > with parts of scripture -- I certainly do, even parts of Paul, and so
> > does
> > > every single person I know, lay or ordained.  I think Jay and I are
> > simply
> > > having a disagreement about Paul, into which you felt it necessary to
> > > insert your opinion and take me to task.  Of course, that's allowed,
> too,
> > > as differing opinions are what make pub conversation interesting.  It's
> > > when it gets personal by attributing personal characteristics, moods
> and
> > > motivations (Ann Markle is snarky, condescending) that it gets to be
> time
> > > to bow out of the conversation and let others have the last word.
> Sorry
> > I
> > > spoke up with a differing opinion - I guess I should have known better.
> > >
> > > Ann
> > >
> > > The Rev. Ann Markle
> > > Buffalo, NY
> > > ann.markle at aya.yale.edu <javascript:;>
> > > blog:  www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Yes, that's what I thought, too, Ann. Your remark felt very
> > condescending
> > >> to me. There are many things about Paul's writings that are wonderful,
> > and
> > >> there are other things that I find offensive. I believe it's possible
> to
> > >> understand something and still not like it.  Obviously YMMV.
> > >> Grace
> > >>
> > >>> On Jan 8, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Bit o' snark there, don'tcha think?
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
> > <javascript:;>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Feel bad for folks who don't understand Paul.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Staunch feminist,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Ann
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
> > >>>> Buffalo, NY
> > >>>> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu <javascript:;>
> > >>>> blog:  www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:06 PM, M J [Mike] Logsdon <
> mjl at ix.netcom.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I sometimes wonder how some, if not almost all, of Paul got into
> > the
> > >>>>> canon.
> > >>>>> But that's me.<<<
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Lee Hays of the Weavers once said that whenever Paul came into a
> town
> > >> he
> > >>>>> instantly set sex back 20 years.
> > >>
> >
>