[Magdalen] Epiphany

[Grace Cangialosi]

Thanks, Sally; I'll try the book, though I must confess that the title puts me off a bit. It might encourage those who seem to feel that the "Gospel" of Paul is the only Gospel the need.

When I commented to someone awhile ago that they seem to put much more stock in Paul's teachings than they do in Jesus, his response--and I'm not making this up--was, "Well, Jesus was a Jew, and he came to preach to the Jews. Paul was the one for the Gentiles."
I was speechless...

> On Jan 9, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Sally Davies <sally.davies at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I read Ann's comment as a spectrum thing, meaning that it's not an 'either
> you understand or you don't'. There are different ways to understand Paul -
> and I've been through a few shades on the spectrum. There are always things
> I feel I understand more now, and things I still don't understand and
> probably never will. And yes, things I don't like and probably never will.
> 
> One book that really changed my perspective was "The Gospel According to
> Paul" by Robin Griffith-Jones. I don't read a lot of scholarship and
> generall feel rather ignorant of the various controversies, but this book
> was an eye opener.
> 
> Even if it could be shown that Paul definitely wrote the passages which
> have been so painfully used and abused against women's dignity and
> equality, I would still revere him for the one or two stunningly beautiful
> and profound passages to which I return again and again. When he wrote
> "there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free", he could
> have been describing himself - a beautiful, wild, confusing, frustrating
> mix of all those characteristics.
> 
> For instance, his words on love, and his word-picture of the Cosmic Christ
> "the image of the invisible God", as well as the lovely doxologies which I
> daresay were in common usage in the early church but have been saved and
> preserved for us by Paul.
> 
> I also love the way he never gave up in his own life, struggling to
> understand more and to love more - despite coming from what seems like a
> very legalistic, judgemental and unloving background. When his authentic
> personal voice is speaking from the page, it's always fresh, raw and so
> real it could be happening right now, somewhere in the world. In fact, it
> probably is.
> 
> I guess that in life he wasn't easy to get along with; a number of great
> teachers seem to have outright fallen out with him or at least concluded to
> go their separate ways. And he's still not easy to get along with now. But
> so, so worth it.
> 
> Sally D
> 
> 
> 
>> On Friday, 9 January 2015, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Ann, I apologize for misreading your earlier post. I didn't realize you
>> were just responding to Jay, and I took your comment to indicate that folks
>> who aren't fond of Paul only feel that way because they don't understand
>> him...as more enlightened people do. And I heard that as rather
>> condescending.
>> Grace
>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2015, at 2:06 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Grace, it's obvious that mileage does vary on this list - about Paul and
>>> everything else!  But anyone who doesn't understand might grow in wisdom
>> by
>>> trying to understand. - and Jay said clearly she DIDN'T understand (why
>>> Paul got into the canon of scripture).  I always learned (from very wise
>>> teachers) that it's better to wrestle with scripture and try to better
>>> understand, than categorically dismiss.  And of course, it's ok to
>> disagree
>>> with parts of scripture -- I certainly do, even parts of Paul, and so
>> does
>>> every single person I know, lay or ordained.  I think Jay and I are
>> simply
>>> having a disagreement about Paul, into which you felt it necessary to
>>> insert your opinion and take me to task.  Of course, that's allowed, too,
>>> as differing opinions are what make pub conversation interesting.  It's
>>> when it gets personal by attributing personal characteristics, moods and
>>> motivations (Ann Markle is snarky, condescending) that it gets to be time
>>> to bow out of the conversation and let others have the last word.  Sorry
>> I
>>> spoke up with a differing opinion - I guess I should have known better.
>>> 
>>> Ann
>>> 
>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
>>> Buffalo, NY
>>> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu <javascript:;>
>>> blog:  www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, that's what I thought, too, Ann. Your remark felt very
>> condescending
>>>> to me. There are many things about Paul's writings that are wonderful,
>> and
>>>> there are other things that I find offensive. I believe it's possible to
>>>> understand something and still not like it.  Obviously YMMV.
>>>> Grace
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bit o' snark there, don'tcha think?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>> <javascript:;>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Feel bad for folks who don't understand Paul.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Staunch feminist,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ann
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
>>>>>> Buffalo, NY
>>>>>> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu <javascript:;>
>>>>>> blog:  www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:06 PM, M J [Mike] Logsdon <mjl at ix.netcom.com
>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I sometimes wonder how some, if not almost all, of Paul got into
>> the
>>>>>>> canon.
>>>>>>> But that's me.<<<
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Lee Hays of the Weavers once said that whenever Paul came into a town
>>>> he
>>>>>>> instantly set sex back 20 years.
>>