[Magdalen] Short-term prayers, please

[Sally Davies]

One thing I have learned about complex systems, like families....there is a
degree of chaos...it may not matter too much what change you make, as long
as it  does not add to your own burden or to the general toxicity. So long
as it is neither manipulative nor unkind.

So I wonder about this, Grace, you did something you have not done before:
taking an explicit stand against abuse and what others have (helpfully IMO)
called Hostage Taking. This is something new?

And a day later your son calls to say he couldnt sleep. Significant? Maybe,
maybe not. But the flap of a butterfly wing can sometimes be the engine of
powerful change. And any change you are able to make within a painfully
knotted family system is a statement about   freedom...who knows where that
could lead.

Just as all these truth claims about heaven and hell and holiness are multi
layered, they are about that but also about safety and security and
frustrated love and control and resentment and narcissism and envy and the
whole complex tangle of the human heart and DNA.

This I know because I too often face the burning desire to put my own Mom
straight, to remake her the way I want her to be and not the way she
(deliberately, obstinately) is. And always has been. And behind that, the
longing to be important, to be the one she depends on and listens to and is
never disappointed by...

One metaphor I like is a tangle of wool, or kite string. Hopeless to figure
out where it began to tangle, where it went after that, how it found itself
in this mess.  You just start somewhere, any place you can work your
fingers into it. You start pulling it apart and gradually, it begins to
work with you. I believe in that much more than any method but would not
deny that there is much wisdom and value in methods.

I also like Hannah Lerner's book about dancing through anger and out the
other side.

Prayers continue..

Sally D

On Friday, July 31, 2015, Lynn Ronkainen <houstonklr at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes they are
> Lynn
>
>
> website: www.ichthysdesigns.com
>
> When I stand before God at the end of my life I would hope that I have not
> a single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything You gave me."
> attributed to Erma Bombeck
> "Either Freedom for all or stop talking about Freedom at all" from a talk
> by Richard Rohr
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Grace Cangialosi" <gracecan at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 4:05 PM
> To: "Magdalen" <magdalen at herberthouse.org>
> Subject: Re: [Magdalen] Short-term prayers, please
>
> Are ACA and ACoA the same?
>>
>> On July 31, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Lynn Ronkainen <houstonklr at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would not recommend online meetings for anyone who is not already very
>> familiar with the FTF meetings of the identifier they have attended
>> before,
>> or even switching between  'qualifying' behaviors - for instance
>> AA/Alanon/ACoA.  They are all different and nuanced. IMO.
>>
>> Lynn
>> Alanon, ACoA
>>
>> website: www.ichthysdesigns.com
>>
>> When I stand before God at the end of my life I would hope that I have
>> not a
>> single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything You gave me."
>> attributed to Erma Bombeck
>> "Either Freedom for all or stop talking about Freedom at all" from a talk
>> by Richard Rohr
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Jay Weigel" <jay.weigel at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 3:48 PM
>> To: <magdalen at herberthouse.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Magdalen] Short-term prayers, please
>>
>> There have been online AA and Al-Anon meetings for years, started mostly
>>> for members who are out there rdar from others. It's been a long time
>>> since
>>> I've done one and I can't remember how to get there, but google is your
>>> friend.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Online? That's something I wouldn't have thought of!! I do remember
>>>> finding Al-Anon's "One Day at a Time" reader helpful, but then I gave
>>>> away
>>>> my last copy.
>>>>
>>>> On July 31, 2015, at 4:14 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I find that every once in awhile I need a refresher. Just a thought.
>>>> Sometimes I find an online meeting does it for me, sometimes I just go
>>>> back
>>>> and do some reading.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I'm actually an Al-Anon alum, Heather, which is the only reason I'm
>>>> > even
>>>> > halfway dealing with this and also sleeping at night!
>>>> >
>>>> > My daughter told me this morning that my son had called her, because
>>>> > he
>>>> > couldn't sleep.  She told me she thinks our relationship is >
>>>> irreparable
>>>> and
>>>> > that I should just move on. She also reminded me that I had cut myself
>>>> off
>>>> > from my parents.  The difference, as  I see it is that I was never
>>>> hateful
>>>> > to them, just had as little contact as possible once I realized how
>>>> > toxic
>>>> > it was for me to be around them.  But we lived about ten hours away,
>>>> > so
>>>> > that was easy.
>>>> >
>>>> > My daughter also pointed out that, if it weren't for the children, my
>>>> > son
>>>> > and I probably wouldn't see each other at all. He did tell me a year
>>>> > or
>>>> so
>>>> > ago that aside from the kids, we have nothing in common, and he wanted
>>>> > me
>>>> > out of his life.  Then a few months later, they invited me for
>>>> > Thanksgiving...
>>>> >
>>>> > Ah well, enough...thanks for listening and praying, all of you!
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 2:37 PM, H Angus <hangus at ctcn.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Dear Grace,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I agree with what everyone has said, and I would also suggest that
>>>> > > you
>>>> > > consider attending Al-Anon meetings. That was where I learned how to
>>>> > refuse
>>>> > > to be abused by out-of-control people, definitely including
>>>> > > relatives.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Heather
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: "Susan Hagen" <susanvhagen at gmail.com>
>>>> > > To: "magdalen" <magdalen at herberthouse.org>
>>>> > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:13:07 PM
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [Magdalen] Short-term prayers, please
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Dear Grace,
>>>> > > You have my prayers.  I know the pain of being in the blast radius
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > someone else's rage.  I think you've done all you can for now.  I
>>>> > > pray
>>>> > that
>>>> > > you will feel the love that all of us feel for you and always feel
>>>> God's
>>>> > > love.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Susan
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Grace Cangialosi
>>>> > > <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>>> > > wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > Well, that's an idea, Molly, and there are a couple of people.  I
>>>> > > > had
>>>> > > > thought of sending the original letter to my daughter and one > >
>>>> > other
>>>> > > friend
>>>> > > > to read, but decided against it and just deleted it.
>>>> > > > This was what I just sent my son:
>>>> > > > <https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=1amvfrlmd5t4b#>
>>>> > > > "Today at 3:51 PM
>>>> > > >  I see that I have another note from you.  I haven't deleted it,
>>>> > > > but
>>>> > I'm
>>>> > > > not ready to read it yet, either.  I'll let you know if/when I do.
>>>> > > > I
>>>> > > > sometimes wonder if you have any idea how hurtful you can be. And
>>>> then,
>>>> > > > after awhile, it's like you forget all about it, and things sort
>>>> > > > of
>>>> go
>>>> > > back
>>>> > > > to normal--until the next time."
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I think for now, not reading it is probably the best idea. And if
>>>> > you're
>>>> > > > thinking there may be mental issues involved, you're right. But
>>>> prayer
>>>> > > will
>>>> > > > take care of those; no need for medication! It's just sad all the
>>>> > > > way
>>>> > > > around, and I do worry about the kids--six of their own and
>>>> > > > currently
>>>> > two
>>>> > > > fosters.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Molly Wolfmama <lupa at kos.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > You've got my prayers, in spades.  What a horrible situation for
>>>> you!
>>>> > > Is
>>>> > > > > there someone else who could read it in confidence and give you
>>>> > > > > a
>>>> > > précis?
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Hugs,
>>>> > > > > Molly
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can
>>>> > > > > learn
>>>> > in
>>>> > > no
>>>> > > > > other way. -- Mark Twain
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > On Jul 29, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Grace Cangialosi <
>>>> gracecan at gmail.com>
>>>> > > > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Without going into the very long, sad history, I'm asking your
>>>> > > prayers
>>>> > > > > for
>>>> > > > > > what will probably seem like something totally insignificant.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Periodically my son subjects me to verbal or written > > > >
>>>> > diatribes,
>>>> > > > sometimes
>>>> > > > > > cutting me off from seeing his children, sometimes not.  They
>>>> > always
>>>> > > > seem
>>>> > > > > > to come out of left field.  This time I had responded to an
>>>> article
>>>> > > he
>>>> > > > > > forwarded to me, agreeing with much of it, which I thought
>>>> > > > > > would
>>>> > > > surprise
>>>> > > > > > him, and thinking it might be the opening for a real
>>>> conversation.
>>>> > > > > Instead,
>>>> > > > > > I got back a long, long attack, really hateful and verbally
>>>> > abusive.
>>>> > > I
>>>> > > > > read
>>>> > > > > > just enough to see what was there and then deleted it. Went
>>>> > > > > > back
>>>> > > later
>>>> > > > > and
>>>> > > > > > emptied it from the trash, so I wouldn't be tempted to read >
>>>> > > > > the
>>>> > whole
>>>> > > > > thing
>>>> > > > > > and spend the next three days beating myself up and wondering
>>>> what
>>>> > > I've
>>>> > > > > > done wrong. (Which, of course, I've been doing anyway...)
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Anyway--sorry this is so long--I carefully wrote a response,
>>>> > saying I
>>>> > > > was
>>>> > > > > > sorry that he had felt the need to respond that way, that I >
>>>> > > > > had
>>>> > > deleted
>>>> > > > > his
>>>> > > > > > message without reading most of it, because I didn't need that
>>>> > verbal
>>>> > > > > > abuse. ( I had seen that he was heading into a place I've seen
>>>> > > > > > before...insisting that we are all depraved and evil at heart,
>>>> but
>>>> > my
>>>> > > > > pride
>>>> > > > > > won't let me see that, even though Scripture is clear on that.
>>>> > There
>>>> > > > was
>>>> > > > > > something to the effect that I put on this show so that people
>>>> will
>>>> > > > > > think I'm a good person, etc.) I stopped reading there.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > I told him it saddens me that that's so much of his theology,
>>>> that
>>>> > > Paul
>>>> > > > > > really needs to be read through the lens of the Gospels and
>>>> Jesus'
>>>> > > > > > reflection of God as a God of love. And also that God created
>>>> > > > > > the
>>>> > > world
>>>> > > > > and
>>>> > > > > > saw that it was good. I ended by saying that I would continue
>>>> > > > > > to
>>>> > pray
>>>> > > > > that
>>>> > > > > > he will find that God of love and know that he is loved by >
>>>> > > > > God.
>>>> > And
>>>> > > > > after
>>>> > > > > > much consideration, I went ahead and signed it Love, Mom.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Now I see that I have a reply from him that starts out "I hope
>>>> you
>>>> > > > won't
>>>> > > > > > delete this before reading it...,"  but I haven't opened it
>>>> > > > > > yet.
>>>> > I'm
>>>> > > > > > tempted to just write back and say that I haven't read it yet
>>>> > because
>>>> > > > I'm
>>>> > > > > > not ready to read it, but that I  haven't deleted it yet,
>>>> > > > > > either.
>>>> > > > Maybe
>>>> > > > > > that would be the way to go?
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > I also thought about forwarding it to my daughter without
>>>> > > > > > reading
>>>> > it
>>>> > > > and
>>>> > > > > > asking her to tell me whether to read it or not, but that > >
>>>> > > > seems
>>>> the
>>>> > > > > > cowardly way to go.  She's aware of the situation, though I
>>>> didn't
>>>> > > > share
>>>> > > > > > the other email with her. She pretty much keeps her distance
>>>> > > > > > from
>>>> > him
>>>> > > > > most
>>>> > > > > > of the time. Her take is that he finds it easier to take his
>>>> anger
>>>> > > out
>>>> > > > on
>>>> > > > > > me than to actually deal with the things he doesn't like about
>>>> > > himself
>>>> > > > > and
>>>> > > > > > the choices he's made.  In my head I know that's probably > >
>>>> > > > true,
>>>> and
>>>> > > > > that's
>>>> > > > > > what I would say to someone else in this situation, but it's
>>>> > > > > > hard
>>>> > not
>>>> > > > to
>>>> > > > > > get hooked by this when it happens.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Anyway, what I need is some clarity about the "right" thing to
>>>> > > > > > do
>>>> > > now.
>>>> > > > > > Delete without reading? Tell him I still have it, but am not
>>>> ready
>>>> > to
>>>> > > > > read
>>>> > > > > > it yet?  Just grit my teeth and read it? What I feel when I
>>>> > > contemplate
>>>> > > > > > that last alternative is fear about what I'll find...and that
>>>> > > > > > is,
>>>> > on
>>>> > > > one
>>>> > > > > > level, totally ridiculous, I know. Whatever is there is > > >
>>>> > > already
>>>> > > there,
>>>> > > > > > whether I read it or not.  And it couldn't possibly be any
>>>> > > > > > worse
>>>> > than
>>>> > > > > > things I've already had to take from him. It's not the
>>>> > > > > > different
>>>> > > ideas
>>>> > > > I
>>>> > > > > > have a problem with, it's the personal attacks. And I've > >
>>>> > > > really
>>>> > > worked
>>>> > > > > hard
>>>> > > > > > over the years to keep the door open to relationships with the
>>>> > > > children.
>>>> > > > > > There have been two different times when he barred me from
>>>> > > > > > seeing
>>>> > > them
>>>> > > > > for
>>>> > > > > > several months, but then it's like he kind of forgets, and
>>>> they'll
>>>> > > > invite
>>>> > > > > > me to do something.  I don't know if my daughter-in-law is
>>>> > > > > > aware
>>>> of
>>>> > > all
>>>> > > > > of
>>>> > > > > > this, but I've never said anything to her. She has to do
>>>> > > > > > exactly
>>>> > what
>>>> > > > he
>>>> > > > > > says, and I don't need to add to her worries.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Sorry...I really didn't mean to go on so long. But prayers for
>>>> > > clarity
>>>> > > > > > would be welcome.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Grace
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > --
>>>> > > > > > Grace Cangialosi
>>>> > > > > > Ruckersville, VA
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Keep Calm and Carry OM.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > --
>>>> > > > Grace Cangialosi
>>>> > > > Ruckersville, VA
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Keep Calm and Carry OM.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > Before enlightenment pay bills, do laundry.  After enlightenment pay
>>>> > bills,
>>>> > > do laundry.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Grace Cangialosi
>>>> > Ruckersville, VA
>>>> >
>>>> > Keep Calm and Carry OM.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>