[Magdalen] More Clergy DWI

[Cantor03 at aol.com]

In a message dated 3/16/2015 9:58:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
raewynne1 at gmail.com writes:

Note, I  didn't write the stuff about Republicans - that was from  David
Strang.  Google just made it seem that  way...

Raewynne

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Jim Guthrie  <jguthrie at pipeline.com> wrote:

> raewynne1 at gmail.com  writes:
>
>  The socioeconomic makeup of USA Episcopalians  has changed
>> through the years.  It used to be that  Episcopalians were "the  
Republican
>> Party at prayer", but  there has been a big swing in the liberal  
direction
>> in  recent decades.  As a result, a lot of the wealthy conservatives   
have
>> packed up and gone elsewhere.  Those who remain are a  notch down
>> the socioeconomic ladder.
>>
>
>  Mostly nonsense. Ask the old-timers (if any are left) about the
>  Republicans who led the "Republican Party at Prayer" at St James, for
>  example. All were liberal Rockefeller/liberal Republicans, as were  many
> others in TEC.  Huntington, Barrett, Miller to name a few  who were still
> around in my time --- but you can go back long before  that, too. They 
were
> all big fans of Jacob Javits and Ken Keating in  my day -- both Republican
> liberals.>>>>
You seem to be documenting that these Episcopal Republicans USED
to do a lot of charity, but it's questionable whether ANY of them are  left.


>
> You can go back a long time and find the same was  true everywhere -- J. 
P.
> Morgan was a Republican, for example, but in  addition to building 
hospitals
> and the like, as Warden of St George's  in NYC, made sure there were 
liberal
> -- even radical -- Rectors  installed.
>
> There are, to be sure, conservatives who’ve left --  but I'm sure that if
> you, say, look at the situation in South  Carolina, you'll find that most 
of
> those who've left in favor of the  schismatics were once Democrats --  as
> were conservatives  throughout the South. Republicans there were the party
> of  African-Americans and Liberals back in the day. And just because there
>  were well-meaning efforts to integrate parishes, we, essentially,  kicked
> the people of color out of  TEC>>>>
Well of course most Southerners of all stripes were originally  Democrats,
and this includes the schismatics in SC.
 
To interject something from another note:
 
Incidentally, the Oxford Movement was, indeed, an attempt to recover  for
Anglicans the catholic spirituality and secondarily the richness of  worship
forms, but intrinsic to the smells and bells was the insistence that  these
changes in worship would include a ministry to the poor.  In  fact, most of 
the
pioneer Anglocatholic parishes were purposely located in poor  
neighborhoods.
That the modern manifestation of the Oxford Movement has, in some  instances
forgotten this association is unfortunate.
 
Yet, places like Saint Mary the Virgin in NYC do have a substantial  
outreach
to the poor and homeless of the Times Square area, so it isn't all dressing 
 up
and good music.


>
> In short, the "Republican Party at Prayer" has no  relationship to today's
> Republicans.>>>
That was my point!


>
> Cheers,
> Jim  Guthrie
>
>