[Magdalen] More Clergy DWI

[James Oppenheimer-Crawford]

Back in the days when I was young and foolish (e.g., on the vestry), Dick
Grein, bishop of NY visited and we had a lunch. I happened to be sitting
near him and in the midst of a conversation, he observed, "You know if it
weren't for us and the Roman Catholics, there are parts of New York City
that would go down." Meaning that between TEC and the RCC, we were keeping
parts of NYC from failing utterly.

When I was going to seminary (another young and foolish moment), I remember
going by some TECs that had essentially embraced their ministry to their
neighborhoods as their raison d'etre.

I'm not saying this is what any parish OUGHT to be doing.  It's not for
everyone.  I merely observe that it does indeed go on for some.

James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Cantor03--- via Magdalen <
magdalen at herberthouse.org> wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 3/16/2015 9:58:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> raewynne1 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Note, I  didn't write the stuff about Republicans - that was from  David
> Strang.  Google just made it seem that  way...
>
> Raewynne
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Jim Guthrie  <jguthrie at pipeline.com>
> wrote:
>
> > raewynne1 at gmail.com  writes:
> >
> >  The socioeconomic makeup of USA Episcopalians  has changed
> >> through the years.  It used to be that  Episcopalians were "the
> Republican
> >> Party at prayer", but  there has been a big swing in the liberal
> direction
> >> in  recent decades.  As a result, a lot of the wealthy conservatives
> have
> >> packed up and gone elsewhere.  Those who remain are a  notch down
> >> the socioeconomic ladder.
> >>
> >
> >  Mostly nonsense. Ask the old-timers (if any are left) about the
> >  Republicans who led the "Republican Party at Prayer" at St James, for
> >  example. All were liberal Rockefeller/liberal Republicans, as were  many
> > others in TEC.  Huntington, Barrett, Miller to name a few  who were still
> > around in my time --- but you can go back long before  that, too. They
> were
> > all big fans of Jacob Javits and Ken Keating in  my day -- both
> Republican
> > liberals.>>>>
> You seem to be documenting that these Episcopal Republicans USED
> to do a lot of charity, but it's questionable whether ANY of them are
> left.
>
>
> >
> > You can go back a long time and find the same was  true everywhere -- J.
> P.
> > Morgan was a Republican, for example, but in  addition to building
> hospitals
> > and the like, as Warden of St George's  in NYC, made sure there were
> liberal
> > -- even radical -- Rectors  installed.
> >
> > There are, to be sure, conservatives who’ve left --  but I'm sure that if
> > you, say, look at the situation in South  Carolina, you'll find that most
> of
> > those who've left in favor of the  schismatics were once Democrats --  as
> > were conservatives  throughout the South. Republicans there were the
> party
> > of  African-Americans and Liberals back in the day. And just because
> there
> >  were well-meaning efforts to integrate parishes, we, essentially,
> kicked
> > the people of color out of  TEC>>>>
> Well of course most Southerners of all stripes were originally  Democrats,
> and this includes the schismatics in SC.
>
> To interject something from another note:
>
> Incidentally, the Oxford Movement was, indeed, an attempt to recover  for
> Anglicans the catholic spirituality and secondarily the richness of
> worship
> forms, but intrinsic to the smells and bells was the insistence that  these
> changes in worship would include a ministry to the poor.  In  fact, most of
> the
> pioneer Anglocatholic parishes were purposely located in poor
> neighborhoods.
> That the modern manifestation of the Oxford Movement has, in some
> instances
> forgotten this association is unfortunate.
>
> Yet, places like Saint Mary the Virgin in NYC do have a substantial
> outreach
> to the poor and homeless of the Times Square area, so it isn't all dressing
>  up
> and good music.
>
>
> >
> > In short, the "Republican Party at Prayer" has no  relationship to
> today's
> > Republicans.>>>
> That was my point!
>
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jim  Guthrie
> >
> >
>