[Magdalen] More Clergy DWI

sally.davies at gmail.com sally.davies at gmail.com
Tue Mar 17 21:42:52 UTC 2015


Long may you continue, Marion! I also love incense and get to breathe it
far too seldom. I did this morning, though, at a Roman Catholic funeral,
the first I have attended.

It was for Hugh, husband of our office admin lady. A beautiful funeral,
simple and dignified. The use of Holy Water and incense as the coffin is
brought in and as it leaves, felt entirely appropriate and honouring of the
deceased.

Hugh comes from Scots stock and he had previously asked for a piper in
tartan to play him into and out of the church, very moving (and loud,
inside!)

Sally D
On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 at 14:17 Marion Thompson <marionwhitevale at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I asssure you that we at my little outpost do not "aspire to be Baptists
> or Pentecostals  under the banner of "renewal"."  Rather, we  feel we
> are carrying on the tradition so well written of by Kenneth Leech: the
> anglo-catholic church ministering in gritty places.
>
> Interestingly, a young man showed up on Sunday because he saw on our
> website that we use incense.  :-)  Take that, Bishop!
>
> Marion, a pilgrim
>
> On 3/17/2015 3:38 AM, sally.davies at gmail.com wrote:
> > Similar story here. The parishes that minister to and are located in the
> > poor areas are much more likely to be "high church" than those that
> > minister in upper class areas. They're the ones who throw out the Prayer
> > Book, bring in the bands and aspire to be Baptists or Pentecostals under
> > the banner of "renewal".
> >
> > A parish that is Anglo-Catholic, has plenty of resources, AND has a
> liberal
> > outlook theologically is rare
> >
> > Sally D
> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 at 09:35 Cantor03--- via Magdalen <
> > magdalen at herberthouse.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 3/16/2015 9:58:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >> raewynne1 at gmail.com writes:
> >>
> >> Note, I  didn't write the stuff about Republicans - that was from  David
> >> Strang.  Google just made it seem that  way...
> >>
> >> Raewynne
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Jim Guthrie  <jguthrie at pipeline.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> raewynne1 at gmail.com  writes:
> >>>
> >>>   The socioeconomic makeup of USA Episcopalians  has changed
> >>>> through the years.  It used to be that  Episcopalians were "the
> >> Republican
> >>>> Party at prayer", but  there has been a big swing in the liberal
> >> direction
> >>>> in  recent decades.  As a result, a lot of the wealthy conservatives
> >> have
> >>>> packed up and gone elsewhere.  Those who remain are a  notch down
> >>>> the socioeconomic ladder.
> >>>>
> >>>   Mostly nonsense. Ask the old-timers (if any are left) about the
> >>>   Republicans who led the "Republican Party at Prayer" at St James, for
> >>>   example. All were liberal Rockefeller/liberal Republicans, as were
> many
> >>> others in TEC.  Huntington, Barrett, Miller to name a few  who were
> still
> >>> around in my time --- but you can go back long before  that, too. They
> >> were
> >>> all big fans of Jacob Javits and Ken Keating in  my day -- both
> >> Republican
> >>> liberals.>>>>
> >> You seem to be documenting that these Episcopal Republicans USED
> >> to do a lot of charity, but it's questionable whether ANY of them are
> >> left.
> >>
> >>
> >>> You can go back a long time and find the same was  true everywhere --
> J.
> >> P.
> >>> Morgan was a Republican, for example, but in  addition to building
> >> hospitals
> >>> and the like, as Warden of St George's  in NYC, made sure there were
> >> liberal
> >>> -- even radical -- Rectors  installed.
> >>>
> >>> There are, to be sure, conservatives who've left --  but I'm sure that
> if
> >>> you, say, look at the situation in South  Carolina, you'll find that
> most
> >> of
> >>> those who've left in favor of the  schismatics were once Democrats --
> as
> >>> were conservatives  throughout the South. Republicans there were the
> >> party
> >>> of  African-Americans and Liberals back in the day. And just because
> >> there
> >>>   were well-meaning efforts to integrate parishes, we, essentially,
> >> kicked
> >>> the people of color out of  TEC>>>>
> >> Well of course most Southerners of all stripes were originally
> Democrats,
> >> and this includes the schismatics in SC.
> >>
> >> To interject something from another note:
> >>
> >> Incidentally, the Oxford Movement was, indeed, an attempt to recover
> for
> >> Anglicans the catholic spirituality and secondarily the richness of
> >> worship
> >> forms, but intrinsic to the smells and bells was the insistence that
> these
> >> changes in worship would include a ministry to the poor.  In  fact,
> most of
> >> the
> >> pioneer Anglocatholic parishes were purposely located in poor
> >> neighborhoods.
> >> That the modern manifestation of the Oxford Movement has, in some
> >> instances
> >> forgotten this association is unfortunate.
> >>
> >> Yet, places like Saint Mary the Virgin in NYC do have a substantial
> >> outreach
> >> to the poor and homeless of the Times Square area, so it isn't all
> dressing
> >>   up
> >> and good music.
> >>
> >>
> >>> In short, the "Republican Party at Prayer" has no  relationship to
> >> today's
> >>> Republicans.>>>
> >> That was my point!
> >>
> >>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Jim  Guthrie
> >>>
> >>>
>
>


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