[Magdalen] Heather Cook

[Jim Guthrie]

From: Ginga Wilder

>At Good Shepherd, Summerville, we have a unique situation that other small
>churches may have.  We have one space, flex space. Whatever we do as a
>parish, if it is held at church, is in the large space that includes the
>altar.  The question we are trying to decide, with strong feelings on all
>sides, is where does the consecrated space end.  Is it simply the chancel
>where the elevated altar is or is it the entire room which would include
>the nave - chairs and choir.

I think the limit is the altar itself, if that's a permanent fixture. Holy 
Apostles in NYC turns the entire worship space into a large cafeteria to serve 
1300 meals a day, for example, but clears the tables and replaces them with 
chairs for Sunday worship.

When the Episcopal Diocese of NY gave Holy Communion Church to Odyssey House as 
a drug treatment and rehab center, the altar was blocked off on the idea it was 
still consecrated space. When Odyssey House ran into major financial 
difficulties, they sold it to Peter Gatien, who turned it into a [in]famous 
disco and nightclub. Yet the blocked-off altar space remained.

FWIW -- I think those examples offer a worthwhile path on the subject.

Cheers,
Jim
Nearly every adult member would not hesitate to have alcohol available at
parish gatherings away from the church.  Nor would we quibble about having
alcohol served in another property that included a church building and also
a parish hall, which, of course, we do not.

So where to draw the line.  Do we think it is acceptable to serve alcohol
at parish diners when the nave is being used as a fellowship hall?

I say no.  I am in the minority.

Ginga

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Sally Davies <sally.davies at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am not in recovery but have learned much from people who are, including
> what it means to have a lifelong commitment to sobriety.
>
> I am very interested in promoting a discussion, both here and elsewhere in
> church life, around how best to support and honour the recovery journey of
> those who are that tough road.
>
> If they say it would help them not to have a stack of booze at church
> functions or a culture where drinking is a given or a joke, I'm listening.
> I'm not analysing the psychology or trying to attach categories to what I
> hear, I'm just listening.
>
> Thank you Ann, Molly, Renee and others for being willing to speak out.
>
> I think there might be a difference between church supper where people
> bring their own bottle of wine, and one where glasses of wine or beer are
> offered or sold.
>
> Sally  D
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 5, 2015, Jim Guthrie <jguthrie at pipeline.com> wrote:
>
> > That doesn't negate the need for an alcohol policy to be sure, but it
> can’t
> >>> work if the strongest advocates come off as over the top. And that
> would
> >>> be a
> >>> real tragedy, I think.
> >>>
> >>
> > Molly responded:
> >
> > In a word:  bullshit.  Or moose poop, if I'm going to be Canajun.
> >>
> >
> > I find it disappointing that you think the failure to establish an
> alcohol
> > policy, and the tragedy that result if it doesn’t happen as "bs"
> >
> > If you're responding to the part snipped, well, I think it proves my
> point.
> >
> > Jim,
> >
>