[Magdalen] Arkansas Catch-up.

[Jay Weigel]

Roger said:

All of that said, pro-life should mean being supportive of all life and any
Roman Catholics supportive of capital punishment should read what their
Church's teaching is on the subject. Basically if they approve of capital
punishment then they are rejecting their Church's authoritative teaching.

Absolutely, Roger. Which is why the American so-called "pro-life" movement
is such a sham, in most cases. Most of those folks (yes, I know not all,
but most) are simply pro-birth. They couldn't possibly care any less what
happens to that child (or its mother) once it's born. They are generally
also pro-gun, pro-war, and pro-capital punishment. That would not be what I
would call "pro-LIFE" at all.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Roger Stokes <roger.stokes65 at btinternet.com
> wrote:

> I thought the problem with the lethal drug supply started in Europe where
> capital punishment is officially designated as a cruel and inhumane
> punishment. (That is without taking account of the length of time condemned
> people spend on Death Row which the UK Privy Council, acting as the final
> Court of Appeal for Jamaica, decreed to be cruel and inhumane even for a
> shorter period than a condemned person might spend there in the USA.) This
> ruling by the European Court of Human Rights meant that no European
> produver of the relevant drug could export it to the USA where it might be
> used for an execution.
>
> The ECHR ruling applies to *all* forms of capital punishment including the
> guillotine that was used in France and was quick and hanging which, if done
> properly, is also quite quick as it breaks the neck in a place that will
> cause death very quickly. I understand that in firing squads some of those
> involved are issued with blank ammunition and the number of people firing
> means it is not possible to say who fired the fatal shot.
>
> All of that said, pro-life should mean being supportive of all life and
> any Roman Catholics supportive of capital punishment should read what their
> Church's teaching is on the subject. Basically if they approve of capital
> punishment then they are rejecting their Church's authoritative teaching.
>
> Roger
>
>
> On 21/03/2017 20:46, Jay Weigel wrote:
>
>> *TMI Warning, don't read if easily grossed out.
>>
>> The thing is, current drug "cocktails" are very inefficient and very slow
>> working. They work, basically, by depressing the respiratory drive in the
>> brain, which takes awhile. This is why you see reports of the person
>> Writing, "snoring", and making other noises during the process. It can
>> take
>> as long as 20-30 minutes for death to occur. Whether or not the person
>> actually feels distress is open to debate (I tend to think they do, on
>> some
>> level, even though they are unconscious), but it is most certainly
>> unpleasant for the observers.
>>
>> Another problem has been venous access. Recently, many medical personnel
>> have been refusing to participate in executions on moral/religious
>> grounds.
>> This leaves the prisons with the problem of nobody with the ability to
>> place the IV catheter correctly so the drugs can be administered. In one
>> execution a few years ago, it was discovered *after the fact* that the IV
>> catheter had been improperly placed and that the drugs, which included a
>> potassium compound, had gone into the surrounding tissue instead. Anyone
>> who's ever had an IV containing potassium knows how that stuff can burn,
>> especially if your IV infiltrates. Add to that the problem that many
>> inmates on death row may have a history of IV drug abuse, which will muck
>> up your veins pretty badly, often to the point where there's no way an IV
>> is going in there at all. I'v tried to start IVs on people whose veins
>> have
>> been overused and abused, and there's no going there. No time, no way.
>>
>> And of course, the reason Arkansas, like other states, is panicking about
>> the expiration date of one of the drugs is that most American drug
>> companies are refusing to supply drugs for executions. Period. The end.
>> Funny how they get all moral about that, but don't mind signing your death
>> warrant (or impoverishing your family) if you've got cancer and can't
>> afford your chemo drug. /s
>>
>> Some state legislature (was it Mississippi?) just voted to re-establish
>> the
>> firing squad for executions. I suppose if you just *have* to have
>> executions, a firing squad is much more efficient than the current drug
>> overdose. I can't say what it does to or for the executioners, but I don't
>> think it's any more cruel and unusual. Maybe less so, in the long run.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, M J _Mike_ Logsdon <mjl at ix.netcom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> In April, Arkansas will conduct four double executions in the space of a
>>> ten-day period.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, I said that wrong.
>>>
>>> In April, Arkansas will conduct four double state-sponsored murders in
>>> the
>>> space of a ten-day period.
>>>
>>> The reason for the haste, apparently, is the soon-upcoming expiration of
>>> one of the drugs in the three-drug cocktail.
>>>
>>> For the sake of those souls on the table, I pray that all three drugs
>>> work
>>> "properly", that staff knows what the hell they're doing (there hasn't
>>> been
>>> an execution in Arkansas since 2005), and that it all goes swiftly and
>>> without pain.
>>>
>>> What a country of moral degenerates America was, and in many states,
>>> still
>>> is.  Death, death, death.  More guns!  No socialized healthcare!  More
>>> executions!
>>>
>>>
>