[Magdalen] Arkansas Catch-up.

[Jay Weigel]

But that, of course, is another rant entirely.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 6:27 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Roger said:
>
> All of that said, pro-life should mean being supportive of all life and
> any Roman Catholics supportive of capital punishment should read what their
> Church's teaching is on the subject. Basically if they approve of capital
> punishment then they are rejecting their Church's authoritative teaching.
>
> Absolutely, Roger. Which is why the American so-called "pro-life" movement
> is such a sham, in most cases. Most of those folks (yes, I know not all,
> but most) are simply pro-birth. They couldn't possibly care any less what
> happens to that child (or its mother) once it's born. They are generally
> also pro-gun, pro-war, and pro-capital punishment. That would not be what I
> would call "pro-LIFE" at all.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Roger Stokes <
> roger.stokes65 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> I thought the problem with the lethal drug supply started in Europe where
>> capital punishment is officially designated as a cruel and inhumane
>> punishment. (That is without taking account of the length of time condemned
>> people spend on Death Row which the UK Privy Council, acting as the final
>> Court of Appeal for Jamaica, decreed to be cruel and inhumane even for a
>> shorter period than a condemned person might spend there in the USA.) This
>> ruling by the European Court of Human Rights meant that no European
>> produver of the relevant drug could export it to the USA where it might be
>> used for an execution.
>>
>> The ECHR ruling applies to *all* forms of capital punishment including
>> the guillotine that was used in France and was quick and hanging which, if
>> done properly, is also quite quick as it breaks the neck in a place that
>> will cause death very quickly. I understand that in firing squads some of
>> those involved are issued with blank ammunition and the number of people
>> firing means it is not possible to say who fired the fatal shot.
>>
>> All of that said, pro-life should mean being supportive of all life and
>> any Roman Catholics supportive of capital punishment should read what their
>> Church's teaching is on the subject. Basically if they approve of capital
>> punishment then they are rejecting their Church's authoritative teaching.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>> On 21/03/2017 20:46, Jay Weigel wrote:
>>
>>> *TMI Warning, don't read if easily grossed out.
>>>
>>> The thing is, current drug "cocktails" are very inefficient and very slow
>>> working. They work, basically, by depressing the respiratory drive in the
>>> brain, which takes awhile. This is why you see reports of the person
>>> Writing, "snoring", and making other noises during the process. It can
>>> take
>>> as long as 20-30 minutes for death to occur. Whether or not the person
>>> actually feels distress is open to debate (I tend to think they do, on
>>> some
>>> level, even though they are unconscious), but it is most certainly
>>> unpleasant for the observers.
>>>
>>> Another problem has been venous access. Recently, many medical personnel
>>> have been refusing to participate in executions on moral/religious
>>> grounds.
>>> This leaves the prisons with the problem of nobody with the ability to
>>> place the IV catheter correctly so the drugs can be administered. In one
>>> execution a few years ago, it was discovered *after the fact* that the IV
>>> catheter had been improperly placed and that the drugs, which included a
>>> potassium compound, had gone into the surrounding tissue instead. Anyone
>>> who's ever had an IV containing potassium knows how that stuff can burn,
>>> especially if your IV infiltrates. Add to that the problem that many
>>> inmates on death row may have a history of IV drug abuse, which will muck
>>> up your veins pretty badly, often to the point where there's no way an IV
>>> is going in there at all. I'v tried to start IVs on people whose veins
>>> have
>>> been overused and abused, and there's no going there. No time, no way.
>>>
>>> And of course, the reason Arkansas, like other states, is panicking about
>>> the expiration date of one of the drugs is that most American drug
>>> companies are refusing to supply drugs for executions. Period. The end.
>>> Funny how they get all moral about that, but don't mind signing your
>>> death
>>> warrant (or impoverishing your family) if you've got cancer and can't
>>> afford your chemo drug. /s
>>>
>>> Some state legislature (was it Mississippi?) just voted to re-establish
>>> the
>>> firing squad for executions. I suppose if you just *have* to have
>>> executions, a firing squad is much more efficient than the current drug
>>> overdose. I can't say what it does to or for the executioners, but I
>>> don't
>>> think it's any more cruel and unusual. Maybe less so, in the long run.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, M J _Mike_ Logsdon <mjl at ix.netcom.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> In April, Arkansas will conduct four double executions in the space of a
>>>> ten-day period.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, I said that wrong.
>>>>
>>>> In April, Arkansas will conduct four double state-sponsored murders in
>>>> the
>>>> space of a ten-day period.
>>>>
>>>> The reason for the haste, apparently, is the soon-upcoming expiration of
>>>> one of the drugs in the three-drug cocktail.
>>>>
>>>> For the sake of those souls on the table, I pray that all three drugs
>>>> work
>>>> "properly", that staff knows what the hell they're doing (there hasn't
>>>> been
>>>> an execution in Arkansas since 2005), and that it all goes swiftly and
>>>> without pain.
>>>>
>>>> What a country of moral degenerates America was, and in many states,
>>>> still
>>>> is.  Death, death, death.  More guns!  No socialized healthcare!  More
>>>> executions!
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>