[Magdalen] D decidRe: Dio. Of Virginia

Grace Cangialosi gracecan at gmail.com
Mon Dec 10 21:58:59 UTC 2018 

Well, when I said something about it to Bp. Ihloff, he said they had decided it wasn’t actually a good fit—and I’d heard that from other folks, because their focus is more on congregations. He also said it would have been very expensive...

> On Dec 10, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think the people of Dio. VA are owed an explanation of what is going on.
> Clearly, someone does NOT want this to happen, or the outside mediation
> committee would not have been sunk. At least that is what it looks like
> from here, standing a bit outside the circle.
> 
> Jay the newly Orthodox
> 
>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:36 AM Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for the concise history.  I have followed your posts about the
>> bishop situation in DoVA, and this one puts it altogether in helpful ways.
>> A certain 'mystery' abound in all this with the resignations and early
>> retirements (wasn't Bp Shannon supposed to go another year?).  I wish the
>> greater diocese could see the whole 'why' picture.
>> 
>> BUT, remember where I come from...SC took years - at least 25 to come to
>> schism.  I am not saying that is happening in VA, just that my experience
>> is so particular regarding diocesan leadership leading down the wrong
>> path.  And, again, the schism was not such a terrible thing for those of us
>> who remained with TEC.
>> 
>> Ginga Wilder
>> 
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>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 11:18 PM Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ginga,I c
>>> 
>>> The idea of dividing the diocese has been floated from time to time, but
>> I
>>> can’t imagine its ever happening. I think what would make the most sense
>>> from our perspective would be to move everything west of the Blue Ridge
>>> into SW Virginia, but that would make that diocese incredibly spread out.
>>> I’m sure there are ways it could be divided across the middle, but I
>> don’t
>>> know where that would be.
>>> 
>>> It seems that the Bishop Provisional position might be a title in search
>>> of a job description, at least, they seem to serve in a variety of ways,
>>> depending on the situation. We were told at one point that there were
>> plans
>>> to bring in a mediation group—Quaker or Mennonite, I think—to work with
>> the
>>> diocesan staff. At the same time we were in search for a second
>> Suffragan.
>>> That search was suspended, and the decision was made not to use the
>>> mediation group.  Somewhere in there our Canon  to the Ordinary left very
>>> suddenly and is now in Texas. So Bishop Gulick, who had recently retired
>> as
>>> assistant hibishop came back on as Interim Canon to the Ordinary Then
>>> Bishop Shannon announced he was leaving at the end of Convention, and we
>>> were told we would be getting a Bishop Provisional for three years, and
>> we
>>> would vote on that person at Convention.
>>> Which didn’t happen, and that led us to where we are today. Oh, and we
>>> also have Bishop Ihloff part-time, and I’m not sure what his title is. I
>>> think he is scheduled to leave fairly soon.
>>> 
>>> So we have one full-time Bishop Suffragan, who is the current
>>> Ecclesiastical Authority, one part-time bishop who is due to leave
>> shortly,
>>> and another bishop who is serving as interim Canon to the Ordinary. And
>> not
>>> a clue about starting a search for a new diocesan.
>>> 
>>> Good grief, laying it all out like that really points up the confusion,
>>> doesn’t it?! And that doesn’t even touch on all the personnel changes in
>>> the diocesan office over the last several years.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 9, 2018, at 8:06 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> South Carolina has had two provisional bishops since the schism in
>> 2012.
>>>> Rt. Rev. Charles vonRosenberg, retired of E.TN (known to Ann) and Rt.
>>> Rev.
>>>> Gladstone "Skip" Adams, retired of CNY.  Bp vonRosenberg helped SC
>>>> reorganize an Episcopal diocese in SC after Mark Lawrence took most of
>>>> local TEC congregations out of the church.  (This is still being
>>>> litigated.)  Bp Adams has continued to shepherd TECSC and has firmed up
>>> our
>>>> organizational needs.  Both of these bishops work/ed parttime.  The
>>>> Episcopal Church has rules of tenure for provisional bishops...like 2.5
>>>> years with a possible one-time extension.  I do believe a provisional
>>>> bishop must already be a bishop when called to a diocese.  The most
>>> notable
>>>> difference with a provisional bishop is that s/he is a is hired by the
>>>> diocese, thus can be discharged by the standing committee if things
>> don't
>>>> work out well.  I'm not sure this would work well in conflicted
>> dioceses.
>>>> 
>>>> This is probably an itchy question, but is it possible for Dio of VA to
>>> be
>>>> divided into two smaller dioceses?  The job seems so overwhelming and
>>> huge
>>>> with the number of churches included in VA.  Yeah, I said itchy....I
>>>> understand many would not want to consider this.
>>>> 
>>>> The other thing is I agree totally that the truth of what has gone on
>> to
>>>> create the present unpleasantness in the diocese needs to be told to
>>>> Episcopalians there.  Perhaps the diocese would need to have certain
>>> skills
>>>> in its next bishop?  But, if secrets are being kept from the general
>>>> members, that is just playing the same stuff into the future and that
>>> ain't
>>>> healthy!
>>>> 
>>>> Blessings all.
>>>> Ginga
>>>> 
>>>> <
>>> 
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>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 6:21 PM Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Western New York. Bishop provisional is nothing like interim or priest
>>> in
>>>>> charge. It’s in contemplation of an entirely new form of Diocesan
>>> structure
>>>>> (not yet fully known; to be discerned as we live into it), not some
>>> kind of
>>>>> “special care for a troubled diocese.” Don’t know what you'd call that
>>>>> other kind of bishop (maybe the same thing), but that’s not the model
>> in
>>>>> play here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 12:12 AM Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ve forgotten, Ann—what is your Diocese now? Five years seems like a
>>>>> long
>>>>>> time for a provisional. If we’d been able to find one, the term would
>>>>> have
>>>>>> been for three years.
>>>>>> It almost sounds as if the role of bishop provisional is the
>> equivalent
>>>>> of
>>>>>> priest-in-charge. We’re using that more and more in our diocese.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 11:01 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yep. We’ve been talking bishop provisional for a couple of years,
>> and
>>>>>>> formalized it at diocesan convention last fall. +Sean Rowe of
>> Western
>>>>> PA
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> our provisional bishop elect, to begin a 5 year term in April 2019.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 10:46 AM Grace Cangialosi <
>> gracecan at gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I saw an article earlier this week about the potential—or
>>>>>> current—shortage
>>>>>>>> of bishop candidates and what it might mean for the future
>>>>> organization
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the church. Your situation in Michigan sounds as if it might be a
>>>>> trial
>>>>>>>> case for that. It’s happened in other places as well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Judy Fleener <fleenerj at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Our bishop, Western Michigan is now the provisional for Eastern
>> Mich
>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> continues as our diocesan.  I'm a member of the Standing
>> Committee.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>> is seen as a step toward something where our bishop will become
>>> their
>>>>>>>>> bishop also. Not sure that that means  our becoming one diocese.
>>> Our
>>>>>> See
>>>>>>>>> city is now Grand Rapids.  We have hired the communications person
>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> Eastern Michigan to to that job for us along side the job in
>> Eastern
>>>>>>>> Mich.
>>>>>>>>> Part of the motivation is money..
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 6:10 AM Grace Cangialosi <
>>> gracecan at gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Well, in another change of plans, it seems we aren’t going to
>> have
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> Bishop Provisional, after all. Instead, Susan Goff, our Suffragan
>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> continue to be the Ecclesiastical Authority until we have elected
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> consecrated a Diocesan. Lord only knows how long that will take!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I’m not sure what I think about this, but it doesn’t feel like a
>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>> idea. OTOH, they’ve really been having a hard time finding a
>>>>>>>> Provisional.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Judy Fleener, ObJN,SSH
>>>>>>>>> Western Michigan
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ann
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
>>>>>>> Buffalo, NY
>>>>>>> www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ann
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
>>>>> Buffalo, NY
>>>>> www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
>>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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