[Magdalen] D decidRe: Dio. Of Virginia

Ginga Wilder gingawilder at gmail.com
Mon Dec 10 22:58:02 UTC 2018 

Would new leadership at the diocesan level be possible?  Something needs to
change, I think, for a fresh breeze to blow and some sunlight to shine.  I
am so sorry y'all are experiencing this, Grace.

Ginga

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On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 4:59 PM Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, when I said something about it to Bp. Ihloff, he said they had
> decided it wasn’t actually a good fit—and I’d heard that from other folks,
> because their focus is more on congregations. He also said it would have
> been very expensive...
>
> > On Dec 10, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think the people of Dio. VA are owed an explanation of what is going
> on.
> > Clearly, someone does NOT want this to happen, or the outside mediation
> > committee would not have been sunk. At least that is what it looks like
> > from here, standing a bit outside the circle.
> >
> > Jay the newly Orthodox
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:36 AM Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the concise history.  I have followed your posts about the
> >> bishop situation in DoVA, and this one puts it altogether in helpful
> ways.
> >> A certain 'mystery' abound in all this with the resignations and early
> >> retirements (wasn't Bp Shannon supposed to go another year?).  I wish
> the
> >> greater diocese could see the whole 'why' picture.
> >>
> >> BUT, remember where I come from...SC took years - at least 25 to come to
> >> schism.  I am not saying that is happening in VA, just that my
> experience
> >> is so particular regarding diocesan leadership leading down the wrong
> >> path.  And, again, the schism was not such a terrible thing for those
> of us
> >> who remained with TEC.
> >>
> >> Ginga Wilder
> >>
> >> <
> >>
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> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 11:18 PM Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ginga,I c
> >>>
> >>> The idea of dividing the diocese has been floated from time to time,
> but
> >> I
> >>> can’t imagine its ever happening. I think what would make the most
> sense
> >>> from our perspective would be to move everything west of the Blue Ridge
> >>> into SW Virginia, but that would make that diocese incredibly spread
> out.
> >>> I’m sure there are ways it could be divided across the middle, but I
> >> don’t
> >>> know where that would be.
> >>>
> >>> It seems that the Bishop Provisional position might be a title in
> search
> >>> of a job description, at least, they seem to serve in a variety of
> ways,
> >>> depending on the situation. We were told at one point that there were
> >> plans
> >>> to bring in a mediation group—Quaker or Mennonite, I think—to work with
> >> the
> >>> diocesan staff. At the same time we were in search for a second
> >> Suffragan.
> >>> That search was suspended, and the decision was made not to use the
> >>> mediation group.  Somewhere in there our Canon  to the Ordinary left
> very
> >>> suddenly and is now in Texas. So Bishop Gulick, who had recently
> retired
> >> as
> >>> assistant hibishop came back on as Interim Canon to the Ordinary Then
> >>> Bishop Shannon announced he was leaving at the end of Convention, and
> we
> >>> were told we would be getting a Bishop Provisional for three years, and
> >> we
> >>> would vote on that person at Convention.
> >>> Which didn’t happen, and that led us to where we are today. Oh, and we
> >>> also have Bishop Ihloff part-time, and I’m not sure what his title is.
> I
> >>> think he is scheduled to leave fairly soon.
> >>>
> >>> So we have one full-time Bishop Suffragan, who is the current
> >>> Ecclesiastical Authority, one part-time bishop who is due to leave
> >> shortly,
> >>> and another bishop who is serving as interim Canon to the Ordinary. And
> >> not
> >>> a clue about starting a search for a new diocesan.
> >>>
> >>> Good grief, laying it all out like that really points up the confusion,
> >>> doesn’t it?! And that doesn’t even touch on all the personnel changes
> in
> >>> the diocesan office over the last several years.
> >>>
> >>>> On Dec 9, 2018, at 8:06 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> South Carolina has had two provisional bishops since the schism in
> >> 2012.
> >>>> Rt. Rev. Charles vonRosenberg, retired of E.TN (known to Ann) and Rt.
> >>> Rev.
> >>>> Gladstone "Skip" Adams, retired of CNY.  Bp vonRosenberg helped SC
> >>>> reorganize an Episcopal diocese in SC after Mark Lawrence took most of
> >>>> local TEC congregations out of the church.  (This is still being
> >>>> litigated.)  Bp Adams has continued to shepherd TECSC and has firmed
> up
> >>> our
> >>>> organizational needs.  Both of these bishops work/ed parttime.  The
> >>>> Episcopal Church has rules of tenure for provisional bishops...like
> 2.5
> >>>> years with a possible one-time extension.  I do believe a provisional
> >>>> bishop must already be a bishop when called to a diocese.  The most
> >>> notable
> >>>> difference with a provisional bishop is that s/he is a is hired by the
> >>>> diocese, thus can be discharged by the standing committee if things
> >> don't
> >>>> work out well.  I'm not sure this would work well in conflicted
> >> dioceses.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is probably an itchy question, but is it possible for Dio of VA
> to
> >>> be
> >>>> divided into two smaller dioceses?  The job seems so overwhelming and
> >>> huge
> >>>> with the number of churches included in VA.  Yeah, I said itchy....I
> >>>> understand many would not want to consider this.
> >>>>
> >>>> The other thing is I agree totally that the truth of what has gone on
> >> to
> >>>> create the present unpleasantness in the diocese needs to be told to
> >>>> Episcopalians there.  Perhaps the diocese would need to have certain
> >>> skills
> >>>> in its next bishop?  But, if secrets are being kept from the general
> >>>> members, that is just playing the same stuff into the future and that
> >>> ain't
> >>>> healthy!
> >>>>
> >>>> Blessings all.
> >>>> Ginga
> >>>>
> >>>> <
> >>>
> >>
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> >>>>
> >>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 6:21 PM Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Western New York. Bishop provisional is nothing like interim or
> priest
> >>> in
> >>>>> charge. It’s in contemplation of an entirely new form of Diocesan
> >>> structure
> >>>>> (not yet fully known; to be discerned as we live into it), not some
> >>> kind of
> >>>>> “special care for a troubled diocese.” Don’t know what you'd call
> that
> >>>>> other kind of bishop (maybe the same thing), but that’s not the model
> >> in
> >>>>> play here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 12:12 AM Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com
> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I’ve forgotten, Ann—what is your Diocese now? Five years seems like
> a
> >>>>> long
> >>>>>> time for a provisional. If we’d been able to find one, the term
> would
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>> been for three years.
> >>>>>> It almost sounds as if the role of bishop provisional is the
> >> equivalent
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>> priest-in-charge. We’re using that more and more in our diocese.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 11:01 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yep. We’ve been talking bishop provisional for a couple of years,
> >> and
> >>>>>>> formalized it at diocesan convention last fall. +Sean Rowe of
> >> Western
> >>>>> PA
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> our provisional bishop elect, to begin a 5 year term in April 2019.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 10:46 AM Grace Cangialosi <
> >> gracecan at gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I saw an article earlier this week about the potential—or
> >>>>>> current—shortage
> >>>>>>>> of bishop candidates and what it might mean for the future
> >>>>> organization
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> the church. Your situation in Michigan sounds as if it might be a
> >>>>> trial
> >>>>>>>> case for that. It’s happened in other places as well.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Judy Fleener <fleenerj at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Our bishop, Western Michigan is now the provisional for Eastern
> >> Mich
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>>>> he
> >>>>>>>>> continues as our diocesan.  I'm a member of the Standing
> >> Committee.
> >>>>>> This
> >>>>>>>>> is seen as a step toward something where our bishop will become
> >>> their
> >>>>>>>>> bishop also. Not sure that that means  our becoming one diocese.
> >>> Our
> >>>>>> See
> >>>>>>>>> city is now Grand Rapids.  We have hired the communications
> person
> >>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>> Eastern Michigan to to that job for us along side the job in
> >> Eastern
> >>>>>>>> Mich.
> >>>>>>>>> Part of the motivation is money..
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 6:10 AM Grace Cangialosi <
> >>> gracecan at gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Well, in another change of plans, it seems we aren’t going to
> >> have
> >>> a
> >>>>>>>>>> Bishop Provisional, after all. Instead, Susan Goff, our
> Suffragan
> >>>>> will
> >>>>>>>>>> continue to be the Ecclesiastical Authority until we have
> elected
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> consecrated a Diocesan. Lord only knows how long that will take!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I’m not sure what I think about this, but it doesn’t feel like a
> >>>>> good
> >>>>>>>>>> idea. OTOH, they’ve really been having a hard time finding a
> >>>>>>>> Provisional.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Judy Fleener, ObJN,SSH
> >>>>>>>>> Western Michigan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Ann
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
> >>>>>>> Buffalo, NY
> >>>>>>> www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Ann
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
> >>>>> Buffalo, NY
> >>>>> www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
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