[Magdalen] The latest of Prayer Book Revision

[John Robison]

I stand corrected on the French and Creole.

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:17 PM, John Robison <friarjohn00 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> From what I gather:
>
> The Spanish translation is not that great. I knew that while I lived in
> Texas. It's a very simple, if not rudimentary and childish Spish in many
> places, and the Psalter (which tries to translate the '79 version of
> Coverdale as literally as possible) can be outright gibberish. That is why
> the current resolutions are so focused on "Dynamic Equivalence."
>
> there is no official Creole or French BCP '79. Apparently they rely upon
> some unofficial translations and (presumably modified) Roman Catholic
> materials for Worship.
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:45 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> There is at least a Spanish 79 BCP already in existence and use. We had
>> several copies in TN. Don't know about other languages. I doubt French,
>> since few in US use that as their first language  (but I wonder if +Pierre
>> Whalon might have suggested it for his TEC churches in Europe), and I bet
>> not Haitian Creole, either, since those people are poor and brown.
>>
>> Ann
>> The Rev. Ann Markle
>> Buffalo, NY
>> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>> www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:56 PM Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for clarification, Chad.  I did know that about the availability
>> of
>> > ss marriages.  I am finding it difficult to follow GC79 -- too much
>> going
>> > on here and also in the two houses.
>> >
>> > Acutally, I agree with moving to translate new liturgies into the other
>> > languages.  How awful for people to have to worship without a
>> text...BCP is
>> > a fine teaching tool and I'm glad it will be made available in several
>> > other languages of TEC worshipers.  I was astounded to learn that
>> speakers
>> > of languages other than English were being so blatantly excluded.
>> >
>> > As you have explained, this seems like a good compromise.  I especially
>> > 'love' that we can continue to use '79.  I especially appreciate the
>> > baptismal service.  Especially this:
>> > Heavenly Father, we thank you that by water and the Holy
>> > Spirit you have bestowed upon *these* your servants the
>> > forgiveness of sin, and have raised *them* to the new life of
>> > grace. Sustain *them,* O Lord, in your Holy Spirit. Give *them*
>> > an inquiring and discerning heart, the courage to will and to
>> > persevere, a spirit to know and to love you, and the gift of joy
>> > and wonder in all your works. *Amen*.
>> >
>> > Chad, thank you for putting the BCP online for us to use.  A true gift.
>> >
>> > Ginga
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 7:37 PM Charles Wohlers <chadwohl at satucket.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > My reading is, maybe yes, maybe no. So - they may be part of a new
>> Prayer
>> > > Book, or they may continue to live in alternative services. Remember
>> that
>> > > another piece of legislation passed which says that same-sex marriage
>> > > rites
>> > > had to be available in all dioceses.
>> > >
>> > > The only really substantive I see in this legislation is that the 1979
>> > BCP
>> > > will remain in effect after a new Prayer Book comes out. That is, both
>> > may
>> > > be used, much as is currently the case in Canada and in the C of E. At
>> > > least, that's the way I read it.
>> > >
>> > > Chad Wohlers
>> > > Woodbury, VT USA
>> > > chadwohl at satucket.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Ginga Wilder
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 7:06 PM
>> > > To: Magdalen
>> > > Subject: Re: [Magdalen] The latest of Prayer Book Revision
>> > >
>> > > John, it is not clear to me from the wording that this 0084 will
>> include
>> > > same gendered marriage rites.  Can you clarify, please?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Ginga Wilder
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 6:23 PM John Robison <friarjohn00 at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > The HoB sent this piece of substitute legislation to the HoD:
>> > > >
>> > > > https://www.vbinder.net/floor_amendments/84?house=hb&lang=en
>> > > >
>> > > > The Text:
>> > > > Floor Amendment 0084 to resolution A068
>> > > > Proposed by The Rt. Rev. C. Andrew Doyle
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That the 79th General
>> > > > Convention, pursuant to Article X of the Constitution, authorize the
>> > > > ongoing work of liturgical and Prayer Book revision for the future
>> of
>> > > God’s
>> > > > mission through the Episcopal branch of the Jesus movement. And,
>> that
>> > it
>> > > > do
>> > > > so upon the core theological work of loving, liberating, life-giving
>> > > > reconciliation and creation care; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, that our methodology be one of a dynamic process for
>> > > discerning
>> > > > common worship, engaging all the baptized, while practicing
>> > > accountability
>> > > > to The Episcopal Church; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That the 79th General Convention create a Task Force on
>> > > > Liturgical and Prayer Book Revision (TFLPBR), the membership of
>> which
>> > > will
>> > > > be jointly appointed by the Presiding Bishop and the President of
>> the
>> > > > House
>> > > > of Deputies, and will report to the appropriate legislative
>> > committee(s)
>> > > > of
>> > > > the 80th General Convention, ensuring that diverse voices of our
>> church
>> > > > are
>> > > > active participants in this liturgical revision by constituting a
>> group
>> > > > with leaders who represent the expertise, gender, age, theology,
>> > > regional,
>> > > > and ethnic diversity of the church, to include, 10 laity, 10
>> priests or
>> > > > deacons, and 10 Bishops; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That this Convention memorialize the 1979 Book of Common
>> > > Prayer
>> > > > as a Prayer Book of the church preserving the psalter, liturgies,
>> The
>> > > > Lambeth Quadrilateral, Historic Documents, and Trinitarian
>> Formularies
>> > > > ensuring its continued use; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That this church continue to engage the deep Baptismal
>> and
>> > > > Eucharistic theology and practice of the 1979 Prayer Book; and be it
>> > > > further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That bishops engage worshiping communities in
>> > experimentation
>> > > > and the creation of alternative texts to offer to the wider church,
>> and
>> > > > that each diocese be urged to create a liturgical commission to
>> > collect,
>> > > > reflect, teach and share these resources with the TFLPBR; and be it
>> > > > further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That the TFLPBR in consultation with the Standing
>> Commission
>> > > on
>> > > > Structure, Governance, Constitution and Canons is directed to
>> propose
>> > to
>> > > > the 80th General Convention revisions to the Constitution and
>> Canons to
>> > > > enable The Episcopal Church to be adaptive in its engagement of
>> future
>> > > > generations of Episcopalians, multiplying, connecting, and
>> > disseminating
>> > > > new liturgies for mission, attending to prayer book revision in
>> other
>> > > > provinces of the Anglican Communion; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That liturgical and Prayer Book revision will continue in
>> > > > faithful adherence to the historic rites of the Church Universal as
>> > they
>> > > > have been received and interpreted within the Anglican tradition of
>> > 1979
>> > > > Book of Common Prayer, mindful of our existing ecumenical
>> commitments,
>> > > > while also providing space for, encouraging the submission of, and
>> > > > facilitating the perfection of rites that will arise from the
>> continual
>> > > > movement of the Holy Spirit among us and growing insights of our
>> > Church;
>> > > > and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That such revision utilize the riches of Holy Scripture
>> and
>> > > our
>> > > > Church’s liturgical, cultural, racial, generational, linguistic,
>> > gender,
>> > > > physical ability, class and ethnic diversity in order to share
>> common
>> > > > worship; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That our liturgical revision utilize inclusive and
>> expansive
>> > > > language and imagery for humanity and divinity; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That our liturgical revision shall incorporate and
>> express
>> > > > understanding, appreciation, and care of God’s creation; and be it
>> > > > further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That our liturgical revision take into consideration the
>> use
>> > > of
>> > > > emerging technologies which provide access to a broad range of
>> > liturgical
>> > > > resources; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That the SCLM create a professional dynamic equivalence
>> > > > translation of The Book of Common Prayer 1979 and the Enriching Our
>> > > > Worship
>> > > > Series in Spanish, French, and Haitian Creole; and that the SCLM
>> > > diversify
>> > > > the publication formats of new resources, liturgies and rites to
>> > include
>> > > > online publishing; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That this church ensure that, at each step of the
>> revision
>> > > > process, all materials be professionally translated into English,
>> > > Spanish,
>> > > > French, and Haitian Creole, following the principles of dynamic
>> > > > equivalence
>> > > > and that no new rites or liturgical resources be approved by this
>> > church
>> > > > until such translations are secured; and be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved, That the TFLPBR shall report to the 80th General
>> Convention;
>> > > > and
>> > > > be it further*
>> > > >
>> > > > *Resolved*, *That there being $201,000 in the proposed budget for
>> the
>> > > > translation of liturgical materials, that the Executive Council be
>> > > > encouraged to identify additional funds in the amount of $200,000 to
>> > > begin
>> > > > this liturgical revision.*
>> > > > This replaces the more troubelsom (to many) A068 with a different
>> > > process.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > The Rev. John R. Robison
>> > > >
>> > > > The Old Catholic Church, Provence of the United States.
>> > > > www.TOCCUSA.org
>> > > >
>> > > > "Among the repulsions of atheism for me has been its drastic
>> > > > uninterestingness as an intellectual position." - John Updike
>> > > >
>> > > > "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's
>> > life:
>> > > > The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy
>> > that
>> > > > often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes,
>> > > leading
>> > > > to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to
>> deal
>> > > > with
>> > > > the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."  ~John Rogers
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> The Rev. John R. Robison
>
> The Old Catholic Church, Provence of the United States.
> www.TOCCUSA.org
>
> "Among the repulsions of atheism for me has been its drastic
> uninterestingness as an intellectual position." - John Updike
>
> "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life:
> The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that
> often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading
> to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with
> the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."  ~John Rogers
>



-- 
The Rev. John R. Robison

The Old Catholic Church, Provence of the United States.
www.TOCCUSA.org

"Among the repulsions of atheism for me has been its drastic
uninterestingness as an intellectual position." - John Updike

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life:
The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that
often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading
to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with
the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."  ~John Rogers