[Magdalen] Alfie Evans has died

[Sally Davies]

Oh dear, I so agree! And it’s been so long since we had to do anything of the sort that I can’t remember how...

Will check a bit later when I have access to a different device 

Sally D 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 03 May 2018, at 15:47, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Pubkeeper..please close or delete this thread. i did not mean to cause such
> controversy or cause two such respected members to leave. Our numbers are
> few enough as it is.
> 
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:38 AM, Molly Wolf <lupa at kos.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Please unsubscribe me from the Magdalen list.
>> 
>> The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no
>> other way. -- Mark Twain
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2018, at 12:26 AM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
>> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How the heck do you know that? The answer of course is that you don't. I
>> am
>>> now wondering if someone hacked Ms Wolf's account.
>>> 
>>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>>> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
>>> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Molly Wolf <lupa at kos.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Brain death is not the same as brain turning into melt water.  The girl
>>>> who survived had a brain.  Alfie didn’t.  False analogy.
>>>> 
>>>> Molly
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in
>> no
>>>> other way. -- Mark Twain
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 3, 2018, at 12:07 AM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
>>>> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I read of a case where a child was declared brain dead, and yet the
>>>> parents
>>>>> did not want to take her off life support. They felt they detected some
>>>>> signs of response.  An independent person came in and also detected
>> signs
>>>>> of sentience, and so continued to ask similar questions over and over
>> in
>>>>> order to see if the responses were a fluke or a valid response to the
>>>>> questions. He concluded that there was some thought process going on.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The hospital refused to allow her to remain there because they maintain
>>>>> that she was dead. The parents managed to get another hospital to take
>>>> her,
>>>>> and there was a nurse there who was bullied by other staff, like, "How
>>>> can
>>>>> you perform procedures on that dead girl?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> The young woman has been stabilized and moved to an apartment. Cue the
>>>>> questions of who is paying for this, since I don't really care about
>> that
>>>>> stuff...
>>>>> 
>>>>> The implications for organ harvesting are not lost on the med staff.
>> The
>>>>> possibility that they are harvesting organs from a person not yet dead,
>>>> is
>>>>> horrifying and virtually unthinkable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>>>>> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not
>> preserved,
>>>>> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:43 AM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There was an article in the New Yorker recently:
>>>>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/05/what-does-
>> it-mean-to-die
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The suggestion that physicians, men and women who cherish their own
>>>>>> intelligence, would think a non-thinking person is not alive, has
>> stayed
>>>>>> with me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also remember my shock at hearing a physician say he’d never
>> medicate
>>>> a
>>>>>> patient so heavily that the patient was unable to pray. Protocols be
>>>>>> damned, I guess.
>>>>>> -M
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Monday, April 30, 2018, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> me that doctors never have all the answers. Also, this was a black
>>>> child,
>>>>>>> and the hospital did not take into account, apparently (nor did the
>>>> legal
>>>>>>> system) the feelings and attitudes of African-Americans toward death
>>>> and
>>>>>>> the dying process.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>