[Magdalen] TEC talk

Ferdinand von Prondzynski (Emeritus) f.von-prondzynski at rgu.ac.uk
Mon Oct 21 17:16:57 UTC 2019

That's very interesting as ever, Simon - but it's actually quite doubtful whether the pre-1800 church was Anglican in any real sense. Denominational lines were quite blurred at the time, and several C of I bishops tried to make common cause with RCs. I don't think the Church of Ireland was what one might call an Anglican church until 1869. Where it saw itself as clearly separate from Roman Catholicism it was mote independently Protestant than Anglican. Those bishops loyal to the Protestant Crown would have seen themselves as not separate from the C of E in any significant way. In other words, this was a sort of pre-denominational phase, with major variations between different parts of the country.


-----Original Message-----
From: Magdalen <magdalen-bounces+f.von-prondzynski=rgu.ac.uk at herberthouse.org> on behalf of Simon Kershaw <simon at kershaw.org.uk>
Reply to: "magdalen at herberthouse.org" <magdalen at herberthouse.org>
Date: Monday, 21 October 2019 at 15:57
To: "magdalen at herberthouse.org" <magdalen at herberthouse.org>
Subject: Re: [Magdalen] TEC talk

I'm not sure you are quite right about that, Ferdinand :-)

The Church of Ireland was indeed disestablished and disendowed under the
terms of the Irish Church Act 1869, and which came into effect on 1
January 1871).

And prior to that, there had been a United Church of England and

But that United Church had been created by Article V of the Acts of
Union 1800. Before that the Church of England and the Church of Ireland
had been separate sister churches.

So when Samuel Seabury was consecrated in 1784, and the first General
Convention of the PECUSA took place in 1785, it became the fourth
national church of what is now the Anglican Communion, as it was only
some 11 or 12 years later that the England and Ireland were united as a
single church.


On 2019-10-21 15:29, Ferdinand von Prondzynski (Emeritus) wrote:
> Simon wrote:
> > Actually it was the fourth entity, after the Church of England, the
>> Church of Ireland and the Scottish Episcopal Church.
> Hm, one argues with Simon at one's peril, but the Church of Ireland as
> a separate church only came into being with disestablishment in 1869.
> So when Sam Seabury was consecrated Scotland created the third
> entity... The Church of Ireland in due course was the fourth.
> The Scottish Church cannot claim to have invented the term 'Anglican',
> but nomenclature aside the Communion began at its instigation.

Simon Kershaw
simon at kershaw.org.uk
St Ives, Cambridgeshire


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