[Magdalen] Kaeton's commentary

Sun Jan 4 20:02:22 UTC 2015

That is supposed to be an example of what NOT to say.

James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things better
for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your time
on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Marion Thompson <marionwhitevale at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On a different list at a different time in a different circumstance, I ran
> into the hard wall of "OMG You are such an idiot!  What WERE you
> THINKING?"  As if the person isn't thinking that for him/herself!
> I am not prepared to jump on the wagon of that sort of response, which
> only heaps coals on the head of one who is already gravely wounded at a
> profound level.
>
> Marion, a pilgrim    ... today my sail I lift ....
> On 1/3/2015 9:38 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
>
>> I was just observing the general flow of conversation and the surfacing of
>> a lot of emotions from various points of view, and it occurred to me that
>> we can say all kinds of stuff when the person involved is somewhat
>> distant.
>> After all, whatever we might say, the person who is the object of the
>> discussion isn't here, so what we say has no impact on her. If the
>> individual were a sometime contributor to the conversation here, I suspect
>> that the choice of words would be a bit different.  there is a bit of
>> difference between, "OMG! WHAT an idiot!  What WAS she THINKING?"  and
>> "OMG! You are such an idiot! What WERE you THINKING!"
>> I know I interact entirely differently when the person is someone I know
>> personally. And I know that shouldn't be so.
>> Then I thought to myself, "I wonder if this individual is a lurker on this
>> list."
>> And for those who are thinking of saying you would have said exactly the
>> same , etc., etc. -- please don't.
>>
>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>> *“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things
>> better
>> for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your
>> time
>> on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Civil law and ecclesiastical law will direct consequences on Heather
>>> Cook.
>>> We do not have the whole story, and we do know that she left the scene of
>>> an accident in which someone was killed.  This is what she did.  No one
>>> can
>>> say that what she did is okay or doesn't matter. What she did is
>>> definitely
>>> not okay and it matters in zillions of ways.  What she did is utterly
>>> wrong.   I don't think she did what she did on purpose.  I do not believe
>>> she had evil intent.  For me, that is all for the law to discover and
>>> judge.
>>>
>>> I do believe, as Elizabeth Kaeton wrote in so many words, that we have
>>> taken vows to respond to her as a human being and to give compassion and
>>> I
>>> would say love as we are able.  This is what we have promised in our
>>> baptismal vows.  To love one another, not because of our actions, but
>>> unconditionally because we are all sinful children of God.  For me, it
>>> requires that I separate the person (being) from the action (doing).
>>> When
>>> I have done terrible actions, I have been thankful that other human
>>> beings
>>> were there to love me (who I am), in spite of what I did.
>>>
>>> Ginga
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Thanks for posting this, Ginga.  It's a good reminder of our human
>>>> frailty, especially in the face of sudden crisis. I like, of course, to
>>>> think that I would never drive away from an accident I had caused. But I
>>>> have also remembered an incident from about 12 years ago and how badly I
>>>> behaved.
>>>>
>>>> Without going into detail, let me just say that I was stopped behind a
>>>> truck as we waited for a stopped school bus in the oncoming lane.
>>>>
>>> Suddenly
>>>
>>>> I saw in my rearview mirror a truck top the rise and come barreling down
>>>>
>>> on
>>>
>>>> me at full speed. He clearly wasn't going to be able to stop, and I had
>>>> nowhere to go.
>>>> Well, I wasn't injured, but my car was totalled. But what I remember
>>>> with
>>>> great regret was that when the poor driver rushed up to apologise  and
>>>>
>>> make
>>>
>>>> sure I was all right, I screamed at him, "You idiot!! Didn't you see
>>>> that
>>>> we were all stopped??!!
>>>> His brakes had failed, and he was probably as upset as I was, but I had
>>>> thought I might be killed, and my nice persona went right out the
>>>> window.
>>>> I can't be sure of what I would do if I were to cause a serious
>>>>
>>> accident...
>>>
>>>> On January 3, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Mark Harris has written of how irrationally human beings can act in
>>>>> this
>>>>> sort of horrific experience.
>>>>> This is a note about Heather Cook the human being, who comes from a
>>>>> long
>>>>> line of human beings related in turn to a whole host of living beings
>>>>>
>>>> who
>>>
>>>> when confronted with extraordinary threat reacts in ways not always up
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>
>>>> frontal lobe human ethical standards.
>>>>>
>>>>>  http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/2015/01/when-
>>> terrible-terrifying-and-awful.html?spref=fb
>>>
>>>> I feel enormous compassion for Heather Cook...I just can't help
>>>>>
>>>> myself.  I
>>>
>>>> know she is in need of pastoral compassion.  I pray she is receiving
>>>>>
>>>> that.
>>>
>>>> I hesitate to say this, because I do not want to offend those who think
>>>>> otherwise.  But, no matter what she has done, and much we don't know,
>>>>>
>>>> she
>>>
>>>> is still our sister in Christ.
>>>>> And, of course, the family and friends of Tom Palermo and those who
>>>>>
>>>> witness
>>>>
>>>>> this god-awful accident, even we who inhabit the Pub, each and all have
>>>>> need of the very same pastoral compassion.
>>>>> Ginga
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:51 PM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And people do stupid and unexplained things when they're
>>>>>> freaking out. Not everybody's capable of doing just the right,
>>>>>> mature thing under every circumstance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had a case where a teenager gave birth in a bathroom
>>>>>> stall and walked away. The Commonwealth accused her of
>>>>>> all kinds of evil stuff, but a psychiatrist, serving as an
>>>>>> expert witness, explained very clearly that women who've
>>>>>> just given birth aren't always capable of thinking clearly.
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>> -M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>