[Magdalen] Kaeton's commentary

Sun Jan 4 20:12:51 UTC 2015

Sadly, in those words or very similar, it happens.

Marion
On 1/4/2015 3:02 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
> That is supposed to be an example of what NOT to say.
>
> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
> *“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things better
> for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your time
> on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente
>
> On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Marion Thompson <marionwhitevale at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On a different list at a different time in a different circumstance, I ran
>> into the hard wall of "OMG You are such an idiot!  What WERE you
>> THINKING?"  As if the person isn't thinking that for him/herself!
>> I am not prepared to jump on the wagon of that sort of response, which
>> only heaps coals on the head of one who is already gravely wounded at a
>> profound level.
>>
>> Marion, a pilgrim    ... today my sail I lift ....
>> On 1/3/2015 9:38 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford wrote:
>>
>>> I was just observing the general flow of conversation and the surfacing of
>>> a lot of emotions from various points of view, and it occurred to me that
>>> we can say all kinds of stuff when the person involved is somewhat
>>> distant.
>>> After all, whatever we might say, the person who is the object of the
>>> discussion isn't here, so what we say has no impact on her. If the
>>> individual were a sometime contributor to the conversation here, I suspect
>>> that the choice of words would be a bit different.  there is a bit of
>>> difference between, "OMG! WHAT an idiot!  What WAS she THINKING?"  and
>>> "OMG! You are such an idiot! What WERE you THINKING!"
>>> I know I interact entirely differently when the person is someone I know
>>> personally. And I know that shouldn't be so.
>>> Then I thought to myself, "I wonder if this individual is a lurker on this
>>> list."
>>> And for those who are thinking of saying you would have said exactly the
>>> same , etc., etc. -- please don't.
>>>
>>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>>> *“If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things
>>> better
>>> for people coming behind you, and you don’t do it, you're wasting your
>>> time
>>> on this Earth.”  -- *Roberto Clemente
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Civil law and ecclesiastical law will direct consequences on Heather
>>>> Cook.
>>>> We do not have the whole story, and we do know that she left the scene of
>>>> an accident in which someone was killed.  This is what she did.  No one
>>>> can
>>>> say that what she did is okay or doesn't matter. What she did is
>>>> definitely
>>>> not okay and it matters in zillions of ways.  What she did is utterly
>>>> wrong.   I don't think she did what she did on purpose.  I do not believe
>>>> she had evil intent.  For me, that is all for the law to discover and
>>>> judge.
>>>>
>>>> I do believe, as Elizabeth Kaeton wrote in so many words, that we have
>>>> taken vows to respond to her as a human being and to give compassion and
>>>> I
>>>> would say love as we are able.  This is what we have promised in our
>>>> baptismal vows.  To love one another, not because of our actions, but
>>>> unconditionally because we are all sinful children of God.  For me, it
>>>> requires that I separate the person (being) from the action (doing).
>>>> When
>>>> I have done terrible actions, I have been thankful that other human
>>>> beings
>>>> were there to love me (who I am), in spite of what I did.
>>>>
>>>> Ginga
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Thanks for posting this, Ginga.  It's a good reminder of our human
>>>>> frailty, especially in the face of sudden crisis. I like, of course, to
>>>>> think that I would never drive away from an accident I had caused. But I
>>>>> have also remembered an incident from about 12 years ago and how badly I
>>>>> behaved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Without going into detail, let me just say that I was stopped behind a
>>>>> truck as we waited for a stopped school bus in the oncoming lane.
>>>>>
>>>> Suddenly
>>>>
>>>>> I saw in my rearview mirror a truck top the rise and come barreling down
>>>>>
>>>> on
>>>>
>>>>> me at full speed. He clearly wasn't going to be able to stop, and I had
>>>>> nowhere to go.
>>>>> Well, I wasn't injured, but my car was totalled. But what I remember
>>>>> with
>>>>> great regret was that when the poor driver rushed up to apologise  and
>>>>>
>>>> make
>>>>
>>>>> sure I was all right, I screamed at him, "You idiot!! Didn't you see
>>>>> that
>>>>> we were all stopped??!!
>>>>> His brakes had failed, and he was probably as upset as I was, but I had
>>>>> thought I might be killed, and my nice persona went right out the
>>>>> window.
>>>>> I can't be sure of what I would do if I were to cause a serious
>>>>>
>>>> accident...
>>>>
>>>>> On January 3, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Mark Harris has written of how irrationally human beings can act in
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> sort of horrific experience.
>>>>>> This is a note about Heather Cook the human being, who comes from a
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> line of human beings related in turn to a whole host of living beings
>>>>>>
>>>>> who
>>>>> when confronted with extraordinary threat reacts in ways not always up
>>>>> to
>>>>> frontal lobe human ethical standards.
>>>>>>   http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/2015/01/when-
>>>> terrible-terrifying-and-awful.html?spref=fb
>>>>
>>>>> I feel enormous compassion for Heather Cook...I just can't help
>>>>> myself.  I
>>>>> know she is in need of pastoral compassion.  I pray she is receiving
>>>>> that.
>>>>> I hesitate to say this, because I do not want to offend those who think
>>>>>> otherwise.  But, no matter what she has done, and much we don't know,
>>>>>>
>>>>> she
>>>>> is still our sister in Christ.
>>>>>> And, of course, the family and friends of Tom Palermo and those who
>>>>>>
>>>>> witness
>>>>>
>>>>>> this god-awful accident, even we who inhabit the Pub, each and all have
>>>>>> need of the very same pastoral compassion.
>>>>>> Ginga
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:51 PM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And people do stupid and unexplained things when they're
>>>>>>> freaking out. Not everybody's capable of doing just the right,
>>>>>>> mature thing under every circumstance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We had a case where a teenager gave birth in a bathroom
>>>>>>> stall and walked away. The Commonwealth accused her of
>>>>>>> all kinds of evil stuff, but a psychiatrist, serving as an
>>>>>>> expert witness, explained very clearly that women who've
>>>>>>> just given birth aren't always capable of thinking clearly.
>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>> -M
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>