[Magdalen] More Clergy DWI

[Lynn Ronkainen]

AA/ 'Big Book' defines honesty thus in the opening to a  chapter titled - 
How We Do It. -
"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. 
Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give 
themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are 
constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such 
unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. 
They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living 
which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average."

There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, 
but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
----------------

It has been my experience with those I have known personally who have had 
severe alcohol problems, that honesty went out the window way before they 
ever 'picked up the drink', or even thought about drinking to block out 
their messed up lives.

IMO, in general, dishonesty is such a quick and easy solution, and if/when 
it works, it is very effective - kind of a reward for bad behavior. By the 
time it stops working, it too is an addiction. Just look around our world 
and country today, and 'the church' and on a smaller scale our loved ones 
who struggle.

just sayin'
Lynn
ACoA/Alanon


My email has changed to: houstonKLR at gmail.com

website: www.ichthysdesigns.com

When I stand before God at the end of my life I would hope that I have not a 
single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything You gave me." 
attributed to Erma Bombeck

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jay Weigel" <jay.weigel at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 10:49 AM
To: <magdalen at herberthouse.org>
Subject: Re: [Magdalen] More Clergy DWI

> Well, since the whole thing has to do with HONESTY, you can't really say
> one program works over another. If the person in question isn't being
> honest with themselves nothing is going to work until they are. That's the
> whole situation as I see it.
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This is interesting, Jim, and a similar conversation has been taking 
>> place
>> on another list I'm on. It has been dealing heavily with the Heather Cook
>> situation, and a couple of the list members who are in recovery have 
>> posted
>> articles on various aspects of addiction. There was at least one that
>> called into question the AA model, not saying it doesn't work, but
>> emphasizing that isn't the only way to go, depending on the individual.
>>
>> On March 19, 2015, at 11:28 AM, Jim Guthrie <jguthrie at pipeline.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I realize that some here will denounce the heresy, but Chris Hayes on 
>> MSNBC
>> alerted me to an article in the Atlantic magazine
>>
>> "The Surprising Failures of 12 Steps
>>
>> "How a pseudoscientific, religious organization birthed the most trusted
>> method
>> of addiction treatment
>>
>> "Say you’ve been diagnosed with a serious, life-altering illness or
>> psychological condition. In lieu of medication, psychotherapy, or a
>> combination
>> thereof, your doctor prescribes nightly meetings with a group of 
>> similarly
>> afflicted individuals, and a set of 12 non-medical guidelines for
>> recovery, half
>> of which require direct appeals to God. What would you do?"
>>
>> See more at:
>>
>>
>> http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jim Guthrie
>>
>>