[Magdalen] More Clergy DWI

[Jon Egger]

I left AA after 8 years.  My home group had started using the big big book
(Bible) more than the big book and I was really tired of all the
fundamentalist "God talk" that had taken away from the sound advice of
another alcoholic.  I studied before I left, and found Rational Recovery.
rational.org
RR in a nutshell: http://rational.org/pdf_files/AVntshl.pdf

It's similar to smart recovery...and makes perfect sense to this alcoholic.




+++
Grace & peace,
Rev. Jon Egger, Deacon Emeritus
Old Trinity Parish, Independence, MO


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:

> The articles questioning the effectiveness are largely focusing on the
> people who don't want to be there in the first place, or who aren't ready
> for treatment, or who wouldn't benefit from anything BUT forced inpatient
> treatment (and maybe not even that!). You can add IMNSHO to that if you
> wish, but that's my takeaway. One of those was my late ex, who always
> thought he was "smarter than that" anyway. Sad but true.
>
> On Friday, March 20, 2015, Susan Hagen <susanvhagen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No, it blocks the positive effects of alcohol or opiates rather than
> > causing negative effects, reducing cravings.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is that the drug formerly marketed as Antabuse?  Some alcoholics in the
> > > past drank anyway, thinking the resulting nausea and vomiting were a
> > small
> > > price to pay.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Susan Hagen <susanvhagen at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm finding this conversation especially interesting since I've
> > recently
> > > > seen two articles questioning the effectiveness of AA.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://aeon.co/magazine/health/the-aa-is-out-of-step-with-research-on-addiction/
> > > >
> > > > I wonder whether more people would be willing to at least try
> treatment
> > > > aimed at moderating their drinking and harm reduction rather than (at
> > > least
> > > > initially) committing to a complete, lifelong abstinence.  Is anyone
> > > > familial with the naltrexone treament described?
> > > >
> > > > Susan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Lynn Ronkainen <
> houstonklr at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Jim G - I did not realize that your stake in this conversation was
> > > based
> > > > > on court ordered , or otherwise  mandated AA.  I have no experience
> > > with
> > > > > that and so my remarks on 12 step groups are based solely on 'the
> > > > program'
> > > > > helping people who want to be there and their experiences,
> sometimes
> > > > > successful, sometimes not.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Any* court ordered recovery program is only as effective as the
> > > person's
> > > > > desire to change their behavior, IMO. And that goes from mandated
> > > > > 'programs' to prison.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lynn
> > > > >
> > > > > My email has changed to: houstonKLR at gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >
> > > > > website: www.ichthysdesigns.com
> > > > >
> > > > > When I stand before God at the end of my life I would hope that I
> > have
> > > > not
> > > > > a single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything You
> > gave
> > > > me."
> > > > > attributed to Erma Bombeck
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > > > From: "Jim Guthrie" <jguthrie at pipeline.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 5:43 AM
> > > > > To: <magdalen at herberthouse.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Magdalen] More Clergy DWI
> > > > >
> > > > >  If something *works* for one person in 1,000, it is a success for
> > that
> > > > 1.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Not if the other 999 have been "sentenced" to AA and go out and
> get
> > > > drunk
> > > > >> and it results in fatalities. Or even one . . .
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Courts need to supervise, and professionals need to be assigned. I
> > > would
> > > > >> say that AA is probably good for people who join voluntarily and
> > > without
> > > > >> criminally-related matters due to their alcohol addiction, but it
> > may
> > > > well
> > > > >> be an utter disaster for those assigned to it from the court
> system.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I also suspect that given America's reliance on the automobile,
> > judges
> > > > >> tend to be lenient in DWI cases, where they wouldn't think twice
> > > about a
> > > > >> long prison sentence v an NA group for illegal drug use.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > >> Jim
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Before enlightenment pay bills, do laundry.  After enlightenment pay
> > > bills,
> > > > do laundry.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Grace Cangialosi
> > > Ruckersville, VA
> > >
> > > It's a good thing Mary didn't have to wait for a Doctrine of the
> > > Incarnation
> > > before she said "Yes" to God.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Before enlightenment pay bills, do laundry.  After enlightenment pay
> bills,
> > do laundry.
> >
>