[Magdalen] More Clergy DWI

[Allan Carr]

I got drunk more than a few times in my first marriage, feeling totally
incapable of dealing with someone so manic depressive as to sometimes be
psychotic. I tried quite a few help groups but they couldn't repair my
increasing depression until the last of these was run by a psychologist who
suggested a separation which finally led to a divorce. After that, I still
liked a drink or two after work, but did not have any need to get drunk. A
decade after that divorce, my first wife committed suicide.
I never joined AA in those years and don't think it would have helped.
Although I was a Unitarian most of those years, the sentences in the AA
pledge, or whatever it is, about higher powers and a need to turn myself
over to them was and still are really repulsive to me personally.
I do think I am addicted to my couple of drinks a day and sometimes worry
about them, although my doctors say its ok. If I get too worried, I'll try
the naltrexone approach, which seems to work well in the Nordic countries,
Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, which don't have our highly
puritanical needs.


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:

> The articles questioning the effectiveness are largely focusing on the
> people who don't want to be there in the first place, or who aren't ready
> for treatment, or who wouldn't benefit from anything BUT forced inpatient
> treatment (and maybe not even that!). You can add IMNSHO to that if you
> wish, but that's my takeaway. One of those was my late ex, who always
> thought he was "smarter than that" anyway. Sad but true.
>
> On Friday, March 20, 2015, Susan Hagen <susanvhagen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No, it blocks the positive effects of alcohol or opiates rather than
> > causing negative effects, reducing cravings.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is that the drug formerly marketed as Antabuse?  Some alcoholics in the
> > > past drank anyway, thinking the resulting nausea and vomiting were a
> > small
> > > price to pay.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Susan Hagen <susanvhagen at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm finding this conversation especially interesting since I've
> > recently
> > > > seen two articles questioning the effectiveness of AA.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://aeon.co/magazine/health/the-aa-is-out-of-step-with-research-on-addiction/
> > > >
> > > > I wonder whether more people would be willing to at least try
> treatment
> > > > aimed at moderating their drinking and harm reduction rather than (at
> > > least
> > > > initially) committing to a complete, lifelong abstinence.  Is anyone
> > > > familial with the naltrexone treament described?
> > > >
> > > > Susan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Lynn Ronkainen <
> houstonklr at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Jim G - I did not realize that your stake in this conversation was
> > > based
> > > > > on court ordered , or otherwise  mandated AA.  I have no experience
> > > with
> > > > > that and so my remarks on 12 step groups are based solely on 'the
> > > > program'
> > > > > helping people who want to be there and their experiences,
> sometimes
> > > > > successful, sometimes not.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Any* court ordered recovery program is only as effective as the
> > > person's
> > > > > desire to change their behavior, IMO. And that goes from mandated
> > > > > 'programs' to prison.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lynn
> > > > >
> > > > > My email has changed to: houstonKLR at gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >
> > > > > website: www.ichthysdesigns.com
> > > > >
> > > > > When I stand before God at the end of my life I would hope that I
> > have
> > > > not
> > > > > a single bit of talent left and could say, "I used everything You
> > gave
> > > > me."
> > > > > attributed to Erma Bombeck
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > > > From: "Jim Guthrie" <jguthrie at pipeline.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 5:43 AM
> > > > > To: <magdalen at herberthouse.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Magdalen] More Clergy DWI
> > > > >
> > > > >  If something *works* for one person in 1,000, it is a success for
> > that
> > > > 1.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Not if the other 999 have been "sentenced" to AA and go out and
> get
> > > > drunk
> > > > >> and it results in fatalities. Or even one . . .
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Courts need to supervise, and professionals need to be assigned. I
> > > would
> > > > >> say that AA is probably good for people who join voluntarily and
> > > without
> > > > >> criminally-related matters due to their alcohol addiction, but it
> > may
> > > > well
> > > > >> be an utter disaster for those assigned to it from the court
> system.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I also suspect that given America's reliance on the automobile,
> > judges
> > > > >> tend to be lenient in DWI cases, where they wouldn't think twice
> > > about a
> > > > >> long prison sentence v an NA group for illegal drug use.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > >> Jim
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Before enlightenment pay bills, do laundry.  After enlightenment pay
> > > bills,
> > > > do laundry.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Grace Cangialosi
> > > Ruckersville, VA
> > >
> > > It's a good thing Mary didn't have to wait for a Doctrine of the
> > > Incarnation
> > > before she said "Yes" to God.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Before enlightenment pay bills, do laundry.  After enlightenment pay
> bills,
> > do laundry.
> >
>



-- 
Allan Carr