[Magdalen] VTS Chapel,

[Jim Guthrie]

I'm not so much thinking of the actual use or even traditional use. I;m thinking 
more of the goals when we were studying trial liturgies.

I agree that "Lord have mercy" is somewhat misleading, as would be "Lord have 
mercy and incline our hearts to keep this law."

One of the problems was that when used as a choir extravaganza in the 1950s, 
they were done more like a Sousa March (as was Anglican Chant on the Psalms, for 
that matter) and the goal was to get away from that.

Cheers,
Jim Guthrie



-----Original Message----- 
From: Cantor03--- via Magdalen
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:29 PM
To: magdalen at herberthouse.org
Cc: Cantor03 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Magdalen] VTS Chapel,



In a message dated 10/10/2015 3:33:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jguthrie at pipeline.com writes:

Penitential order >>>>>>>

The Kyries have been retained in TEC '79, but the implication is
that they are penitential, and suitable for Lent.  Rome also has
them as a part of the Penitential Rite, but they are followed outside
of Lent by the Gloria.

However, my reading about their origin suggests that the Kyries
were originally part of a longer, not especially penitential litany
and that a better translation of them would be "Lord, hear our  prayer"
and "Christ hear out prayer," rather than "Lord have mercy" and
"Christ have mercy."

To view the meaning of the Kyries as part of such a prayerful litany  makes
more sense than the present situation where there is a waffling of
mood from opening hymn (often upbeat), the Kyries (penitential)
Gloria (upbeat with praise).

At least IMHO.


David Strang.