[Magdalen] Drug research.

Thu Aug 25 06:02:49 UTC 2016

Thank you, Ann, for bring the matter up.  Perhaps it would be good to say a
bit more.

Disagreement is not the issue at all.  It's that the original post might
have something questionable in it, and this is brought up by someone else.

A sharpshooter is one who finds some mistake in the text of another and
instead of pointing it out the person involved, blats it to the entire
list. You can almost sense the glee in their text. Of course, if
confronted, they just say, "I was only pointing out the facts."  I have to
say I am very seldom the target of these, because, having been attacked a
number of times, I know I have to have my facts straight. And I certainly
did recently, the claims of someone, based on the sterling research source
of Wikipedia notwithstanding. But I see it happen to others on this list
all the time, and it is almost never helpful. (Ahem -- in my opinion
anyway, it seems like it just derails the discussion for little purpose)

It happens all the time: someone makes some point in a post, and then
someone else posts to the entire list that the person had some factual
mistake in their post.  This needless interference distracts from what the
other person was trying to say, and of course it lessens the likelihood
that that other person will speak up in the future.  Let's face it. We all
enjoy that rush of having the real facts.  When we can say, "Whoa! You got
it a bit wrong there, but I on the other hand, have the actual truth. Hey,
here are the URLs to prove it!" And in many cases, the matter is virtually
irrelevant to the discussion matter, but is a major distractor to
discussion.

Certainly there are cases where the information might be potentially
harmful if not remedied immediately, and one might wish to bring that up
publicly, but that's usually not the case here.  And of course, there's the
matter of the person who sees something they know (or think they "know") is
not right, but does not wish to take the time to send a private email. If
they do that, there is a classy way to do it, and a not so classy way to do
it.

I've been guilty of that, and I'm sorry I have. I would like to think I
know a little better.  I have been really trying to be a better poster, and
to a large extent, I think I've improved. I try to make comments off list.
It doesn't take that long and it's unnecessary to air our dirty laundry in
public -- unless our main desire IS attacking the other person, of course.
In some cases, I think the people involved are in a lot of pain and are not
having a very good life, and they feel a lot of rage, and sometimes it just
gets spilled out in an attack email. We are all actually doing what we can.
Every one of us is fighting some kind of battle.

I don't mean to condemn folks who choose a different way of making
corrections, but I do wish they would think a bit more about the pall it
puts on the entire list whenever that happens.  For everyone who knows the
sender, there are a number of lurkers who are saying, "Good Lord! I will
NEVER  post to this list!" We know how many folks just read but never post.
I submit that there's a reason for that.

The listowners can confirm or deny that our numbers grow smaller year by
year.

James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu> wrote:

> Jim, I'm not sure what you mean by "sharpshooter."  Does this mean anyone
> who dares disagree with you?  I realize you've worked in mental health.  I
> also realize you cite one anecdotal incident, which doesn't mean Thorazine
> for pregnancy was common medical practice.  We also don't know what other
> kinds of symptoms this RN you knew was exhibiting, many of which might have
> indicated prescription of an antipsychotic med.  Margaret, who has worked
> in medicine/academia for her career, might have something informed to say
> about the origins of Thorazine, as well.  My impression is that this was a
> factual discussion, not "sharpshooting," whatever that is.  Sorry you
> experienced it as some kind of assault, but just sayin', it didn't look
> like that to a disinterested observer who likes you both a lot.
>
> Ann
>
> The Rev. Ann Markle
> Buffalo, NY
> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:30 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I saw that. It's aimed at the psychiatric angle, so it doesn't talk about
> > the other stuff.
> >
> > The point was that many medicines started out in a very different
> category
> > than that in which they became well known.
> >
> > I am really tired of sharpshooters. Not surprised, but tired.
> >
> >
> >
> > James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
> > *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
> > except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Allan Carr <allanc25 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpromazine
> > >
> > > In the section headed "History", it was developed as a better
> alternative
> > > to a drug used to calm surgical patients. It was quickly tested in a
> > mental
> > > hospital, with a dramatic effect on a manic patient who was discharged
> in
> > > three weeks.
> > > It was marketed as Thorazine, replaced such treatments as shock therapy
> > > and psychosurgery and quickly emptied mental hospitals of patients with
> > all
> > > sorts of psychoses.
> > > It also led to the discovery of antidepressants.
> > > If I recall correctly, there are 30,000 homeless living on the streets
> of
> > > Los Angeles, many of them psychotic. I'm not sure if most of them
> reject
> > > treatment with drugs like Thorazine.
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:25 PM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thorazine was the first anti-psychotic (early 1950s)
> > > > but IIRC was developed with the hope that it would treat malaria.
> > > >
> > > > In its rudimentary clinical trials it was found to have other
> > potentials.
> > > > -M, who remembers patients with Tardive dyskinesia
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, August 17, 2016, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
> > > > oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> No.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>