[Magdalen] Drug research.

[Allan Carr]

I'm going to say one more thing. As I mentioned, my mother had paranoid
schizophrenia almost all the days I lived with her up to age fourteen. We
lived in one room with a sheet dividing us. She worked as a housemaid, when
she worked. We had a hot plate and a shelf outside the window for a
refrigerator. From childhood, I avoided being there as much as possible,
because all the walls, so I was told, had microphones to listen to find out
the secret things she knew. Other times, I lived in foster homes when she
was in the asylum being electroshocked, all of which convinced her she was
being tortured because of what she knew.

I have a very long experience of paranoia and I was not raised in anything
resembling a normal middle class home. I have a hard time when I encounter
paranoia here. I can't believe the anger or where it comes from, from
people I presume to have been well off all their lives.

I'm well aware that my lack of understanding normally raised people is a
deficiency.


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 8:42 PM, Allan Carr <allanc25 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are you practicing psychotherapy, long distance, here in Magdalen? I'm not
> sure whether you're a psychotherapist yourself, but, if you are, is what
> you're doing ethical?
>
> Or are you some kind of charlatan, able to determine people's thoughts at
> long distances? He who sees all, hears all, knows all?
>
> In either case you get called on it often enough, and not by me.
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 1:09 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pot calling the kettle black?
>>
>> You know what you were doing.
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2016 3:43 PM, "Allan Carr" <allanc25 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > My mother had paranoid schizophrenia and was treated with shock
>> treatments, before thorazine was available. She hated those treatments and
>> I think they made her worse. Since she was in a mental asylum, indigent,
>> and not a US citizen, she was deported back to her home country where she
>> died of cancer a few years later. I was sixteen when she was deported and
>> living with an uncle. I never saw her again.
>> > I wish she had been born a few years later when thorazine was available.
>> I wanted to give the group more information about thorazine, not nitpick
>> you. You really need to get over yourself.
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Aug 24, 2016, at 11:02 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
>> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Thank you, Ann, for bring the matter up.  Perhaps it would be good to
>> say a
>> > > bit more.
>> > >
>> > > Disagreement is not the issue at all.  It's that the original post
>> might
>> > > have something questionable in it, and this is brought up by someone
>> else.
>> > >
>> > > A sharpshooter is one who finds some mistake in the text of another
>> and
>> > > instead of pointing it out the person involved, blats it to the entire
>> > > list. You can almost sense the glee in their text. Of course, if
>> > > confronted, they just say, "I was only pointing out the facts."  I
>> have
>> to
>> > > say I am very seldom the target of these, because, having been
>> attacked
>> a
>> > > number of times, I know I have to have my facts straight. And I
>> certainly
>> > > did recently, the claims of someone, based on the sterling research
>> source
>> > > of Wikipedia notwithstanding. But I see it happen to others on this
>> list
>> > > all the time, and it is almost never helpful. (Ahem -- in my opinion
>> > > anyway, it seems like it just derails the discussion for little
>> purpose)
>> > >
>> > > It happens all the time: someone makes some point in a post, and then
>> > > someone else posts to the entire list that the person had some factual
>> > > mistake in their post.  This needless interference distracts from what
>> the
>> > > other person was trying to say, and of course it lessens the
>> likelihood
>> > > that that other person will speak up in the future.  Let's face it. We
>> all
>> > > enjoy that rush of having the real facts.  When we can say, "Whoa! You
>> got
>> > > it a bit wrong there, but I on the other hand, have the actual truth.
>> Hey,
>> > > here are the URLs to prove it!" And in many cases, the matter is
>> virtually
>> > > irrelevant to the discussion matter, but is a major distractor to
>> > > discussion.
>> > >
>> > > Certainly there are cases where the information might be potentially
>> > > harmful if not remedied immediately, and one might wish to bring that
>> up
>> > > publicly, but that's usually not the case here.  And of course,
>> there's
>> the
>> > > matter of the person who sees something they know (or think they
>> "know") is
>> > > not right, but does not wish to take the time to send a private email.
>> If
>> > > they do that, there is a classy way to do it, and a not so classy way
>> to do
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > > I've been guilty of that, and I'm sorry I have. I would like to think
>> I
>> > > know a little better.  I have been really trying to be a better
>> poster,
>> and
>> > > to a large extent, I think I've improved. I try to make comments off
>> list.
>> > > It doesn't take that long and it's unnecessary to air our dirty
>> laundry
>> in
>> > > public -- unless our main desire IS attacking the other person, of
>> course.
>> > > In some cases, I think the people involved are in a lot of pain and
>> are
>> not
>> > > having a very good life, and they feel a lot of rage, and sometimes it
>> just
>> > > gets spilled out in an attack email. We are all actually doing what we
>> can.
>> > > Every one of us is fighting some kind of battle.
>> > >
>> > > I don't mean to condemn folks who choose a different way of making
>> > > corrections, but I do wish they would think a bit more about the pall
>> it
>> > > puts on the entire list whenever that happens.  For everyone who knows
>> the
>> > > sender, there are a number of lurkers who are saying, "Good Lord! I
>> will
>> > > NEVER  post to this list!" We know how many folks just read but never
>> post.
>> > > I submit that there's a reason for that.
>> > >
>> > > The listowners can confirm or deny that our numbers grow smaller year
>> by
>> > > year.
>> > >
>> > > James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>> > > *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not
>> preserved,
>> > > except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
>> > >
>> > >> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Ann Markle <ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>> >
>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Jim, I'm not sure what you mean by "sharpshooter."  Does this mean
>> anyone
>> > >> who dares disagree with you?  I realize you've worked in mental
>> health.  I
>> > >> also realize you cite one anecdotal incident, which doesn't mean
>> Thorazine
>> > >> for pregnancy was common medical practice.  We also don't know what
>> other
>> > >> kinds of symptoms this RN you knew was exhibiting, many of which
>> might
>> have
>> > >> indicated prescription of an antipsychotic med.  Margaret, who has
>> worked
>> > >> in medicine/academia for her career, might have something informed to
>> say
>> > >> about the origins of Thorazine, as well.  My impression is that this
>> was a
>> > >> factual discussion, not "sharpshooting," whatever that is.  Sorry you
>> > >> experienced it as some kind of assault, but just sayin', it didn't
>> look
>> > >> like that to a disinterested observer who likes you both a lot.
>> > >>
>> > >> Ann
>> > >>
>> > >> The Rev. Ann Markle
>> > >> Buffalo, NY
>> > >> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
>> > >>
>> > >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:30 PM, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
>> > >> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> I saw that. It's aimed at the psychiatric angle, so it doesn't talk
>> about
>> > >>> the other stuff.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The point was that many medicines started out in a very different
>> > >> category
>> > >>> than that in which they became well known.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I am really tired of sharpshooters. Not surprised, but tired.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
>> > >>> *“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not
>> preserved,
>> > >>> except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Allan Carr <allanc25 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpromazine
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> In the section headed "History", it was developed as a better
>> > >> alternative
>> > >>>> to a drug used to calm surgical patients. It was quickly tested in
>> a
>> > >>> mental
>> > >>>> hospital, with a dramatic effect on a manic patient who was
>> discharged
>> > >> in
>> > >>>> three weeks.
>> > >>>> It was marketed as Thorazine, replaced such treatments as shock
>> therapy
>> > >>>> and psychosurgery and quickly emptied mental hospitals of patients
>> with
>> > >>> all
>> > >>>> sorts of psychoses.
>> > >>>> It also led to the discovery of antidepressants.
>> > >>>> If I recall correctly, there are 30,000 homeless living on the
>> streets
>> > >> of
>> > >>>> Los Angeles, many of them psychotic. I'm not sure if most of them
>> > >> reject
>> > >>>> treatment with drugs like Thorazine.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:25 PM, ME Michaud <michaudme at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Thorazine was the first anti-psychotic (early 1950s)
>> > >>>>> but IIRC was developed with the hope that it would treat malaria.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> In its rudimentary clinical trials it was found to have other
>> > >>> potentials.
>> > >>>>> -M, who remembers patients with Tardive dyskinesia
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> On Wednesday, August 17, 2016, James Oppenheimer-Crawford <
>> > >>>>> oppenheimerjw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>> No.
>> > >>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Allan Carr
>



-- 
Allan Carr