[Magdalen] Images and words about Mary

[James Oppenheimer-Crawford]

What say we?

Well, I for one fully agree with you. The idea that Mary was to conceived
without sin was just so that God would have a sin-free womb to grow in.  I
agree with you; there is no need to sterilize the female or any male for
that matter. After all, scripture states that God pronounced Her creation
good, indeed, very good.  The old men of first-century Palestine were
convinced that the world is polluted with sin, so that God would have
nothing to do with it.  This was why the second person was designated as
the go-to person to travel to the created world, and not the father. What's
more, they believed that even so the second person would need a sinless
place to reside. A womb? Under ordinary circumstances, utterly unthinkable!
So they thought and thought, and finally dreamed up the immaculate
conception, etc.

This would all be very neat except that Mary keeps on showing up to people
in various times and places -- both naive and schooled -- and she has even
affirmed that she is what those traditions say she is.  So I guess we all
need to take care what we say about the wonderful Lady.

I think we can accept one side of the picture and just not dwell on the
implied other.  We do it all the time anyway, and it seems to be a frequent
aspect of scripture.

Just before the flood myth, we read about the Nephilim; and according to
scripture, they all were lost in the flood.  However, a while later, there
are references to these entities again, and nobody thinks there's any
problem -- because the two accounts are compartmentalized and do not
necessarily have anything to do with each other.

Likewise, I think we can celebrate Mary as the bearer and parent of god,
and not dwell on those other ideas promulgated by those first century old
guys.  They were laying the foundations for the toxic anti-female role of
the Church -- an horrible, hateful attitude which prevailed for centuries
until we finally called it out and renounced it.

And the folks in some denominations and benighted areas of our own
communion still are resisting!

James W. Oppenheimer-Crawford
*“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved,
except in memory. LLAP**”  -- *Leonard Nimoy

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Sally Davies <sally.davies at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Fascinating - thanks Ian. This site has prompted me to download Tumblr
> which looks like a good thing to have...
>
> I have SUCH mixed feelings. At a purely emotional level I love "Our Lady"
> far more than a Protestant should (and in Southern Africa the Anglican
> church is firmly in the protestant tradition). The love I have for her is
> simple and trusting, as the Mother of the church and one of the treasures
> bequeathed to us by Jesus as he died, through the "beloved disciple".
>
> But there are aspects, brought out by some of these contributors, that
> annoy me so much I can scarcely stand to look at them. Such as, the world
> of misogyny and anti-humanism implicit in notions such as "unstained", or
> "undefiled". YECHH!!
>
> What the heck does any of that mean? If Mary was "unstained by original
> sin" then who was that person who fully identified with her people in the
> joyous explosion of the Magnificat? Not a perfect woman, just a very young
> human who gave her whole heart to the purposes of God.
>
> Why do we allow a very dubious doctrine ("original sin") to subvert
> everything like this?
>
> And it gets worse - it's clear from some posts that "undefiled" means that
> Mary never had sex. Now I don't take a position on that either way,
> considering it her private business, but I cannot go along with any
> discourse implying that being sexual somehow "defiles" a woman (it's
> unlikely to be a man in that context).
>
> Bah. Sorry to rant, but it's because I AM so fascinated by all this that I
> end up biting off more than I can chew.
>
> What say you, pub friends?
>
> Sally D
>
> On Friday, 29 January 2016, Ian Gomersall <ian.gomersall at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Friends
> >
> > Our Church is hosting a friendly Facebook Group called 'Mary, images,
> words
> > and music' simply for people of *any* Christian tradtion *(or none)* to
> > share images or verse or prose about Mary.
> >
> > It doesn't assume a particular stance on devotion to Mary ...
> >
> > Please feel free to join if you're on Facebook. You'd be very welcome.
> >
> > <goog_1806472691>
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/986129021426449/
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > *Ian Gomersall*
> >
>