[Magdalen] Theological and Liturgical Tidbits - St. John's Abbey.

[Grace Cangialosi]

Jay, are the Old Rite churches the same as the Old Catholics? Because they are in communion with us and do ordain women.

Then there are the Eastern Rite Catholics (*not* Eastern Orthodox), who are in communion with Rome and worship in Old Slavonic. My mother-in-law was a member of that church.

Whew... we do make it complicated! I am more and more convinced that this was not what Jesus had in mind!

> On Nov 7, 2017, at 3:05 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Many of the Old Rite churches, including the one I attend, don't practice
> closed communion. Their reasoning is they've been chased out of s many
> places that they welcome everyone who's been baptized in they name of the
> Trinity. Also they do at least have deaconesses.
> 
>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, aside from the fact that they have closed communion and don’t ordain
>> women...!
>> If I were going to do that, I’d be RC.
>> 
>>> On Nov 7, 2017, at 12:24 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Argh. Part of why I find myself more and more going back towards the
>>> Orthodox. Yes, we argue among ourselves, but geez.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 10:32 AM, cantor03--- via Magdalen <
>>> magdalen at herberthouse.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> TThe monthly Benedictine, "Worship,"periodical came late last week, and
>>>> the issue has a number of subjects related to the 500th Anniversary
>>>> of the Protestant (Lutheran) Reformation.
>>>> 
>>>> (1)  There is a discussion of the continuing difficulties Lutherans
>>>> have now as well as during Luther's time, with the theology of the
>>>> "Sacrifice" of the Eucharist.  There is the ongoing horror Lutherans
>>>> have with any mention of sacrifice in the Eucharist because this term
>>>> 
>>>> makes it seem to Lutherans that there is a re-sacrifice during the RC
>> Mass,
>>>> and the concept of the one, eternal Sacrifice on Calvary is lost.  The
>>>> RC (and Anglocathlic) concept of the Eucharist as not being constrained
>>>> by time, and that the Eucharist of each Mass IS Calvary is not
>>>> comprehended.
>>>> Lutheran suggestion:  Catholics might avoid using RC Eucharistic Prayer
>> 1,
>>>> the old Gregorian Canon, which is loaded with references to sacrifice.
>>>> This would help ecumenism between Lutherans and Roman Catholics, the
>>>> article says.
>>>> 
>>>> 2.  A discussion of the Kyrie, especially as it evolved during the
>> Baroque
>>>> (JS Bach) and later periods into a penitential acclamation.  The article
>>>> confirms what
>>>> I have known for some time that the Kyries were from the East, and were
>>>> originally part of a much more extended litany primarily aimed at
>> praying
>>>> for someone or something.  Thus, instead of Lord/Christ have mercy
>>>> (upon us), the meaning is closer to Lord/Christ hear our prayer.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> David S.
>>>> 
>>