[Magdalen] Theological and Liturgical Tidbits - St. John's Abbey.

[Jay Weigel]

No, not really. They are Russian Orthodox and in communion with other
Orthodox. It's complicated and I don't understand it all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Believers  My church is Stranniki which
is hardly covered in the article. Very accepting and the priest took a lot
of his training in regular Orthodox seminaries. There are a lot of Old
Believers still in Russia, particularly among the Cossacks (about whom I
have learned a lot during my classes, and what I've learned surprised me)
and some of them are in quite high levels of government. The last two tsars
preferred them in their bodyguard, and apparently Putin has a number of
them among his close advisors and bodyguard.

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jay, are the Old Rite churches the same as the Old Catholics? Because they
> are in communion with us and do ordain women.
>
> Then there are the Eastern Rite Catholics (*not* Eastern Orthodox), who
> are in communion with Rome and worship in Old Slavonic. My mother-in-law
> was a member of that church.
>
> Whew... we do make it complicated! I am more and more convinced that this
> was not what Jesus had in mind!
>
> > On Nov 7, 2017, at 3:05 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Many of the Old Rite churches, including the one I attend, don't practice
> > closed communion. Their reasoning is they've been chased out of s many
> > places that they welcome everyone who's been baptized in they name of the
> > Trinity. Also they do at least have deaconesses.
> >
> >> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, aside from the fact that they have closed communion and don’t
> ordain
> >> women...!
> >> If I were going to do that, I’d be RC.
> >>
> >>> On Nov 7, 2017, at 12:24 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Argh. Part of why I find myself more and more going back towards the
> >>> Orthodox. Yes, we argue among ourselves, but geez.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 10:32 AM, cantor03--- via Magdalen <
> >>> magdalen at herberthouse.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> TThe monthly Benedictine, "Worship,"periodical came late last week,
> and
> >>>> the issue has a number of subjects related to the 500th Anniversary
> >>>> of the Protestant (Lutheran) Reformation.
> >>>>
> >>>> (1)  There is a discussion of the continuing difficulties Lutherans
> >>>> have now as well as during Luther's time, with the theology of the
> >>>> "Sacrifice" of the Eucharist.  There is the ongoing horror Lutherans
> >>>> have with any mention of sacrifice in the Eucharist because this term
> >>>>
> >>>> makes it seem to Lutherans that there is a re-sacrifice during the RC
> >> Mass,
> >>>> and the concept of the one, eternal Sacrifice on Calvary is lost.  The
> >>>> RC (and Anglocathlic) concept of the Eucharist as not being
> constrained
> >>>> by time, and that the Eucharist of each Mass IS Calvary is not
> >>>> comprehended.
> >>>> Lutheran suggestion:  Catholics might avoid using RC Eucharistic
> Prayer
> >> 1,
> >>>> the old Gregorian Canon, which is loaded with references to sacrifice.
> >>>> This would help ecumenism between Lutherans and Roman Catholics, the
> >>>> article says.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.  A discussion of the Kyrie, especially as it evolved during the
> >> Baroque
> >>>> (JS Bach) and later periods into a penitential acclamation.  The
> article
> >>>> confirms what
> >>>> I have known for some time that the Kyries were from the East, and
> were
> >>>> originally part of a much more extended litany primarily aimed at
> >> praying
> >>>> for someone or something.  Thus, instead of Lord/Christ have mercy
> >>>> (upon us), the meaning is closer to Lord/Christ hear our prayer.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> David S.
> >>>>
> >>
>