[Magdalen] D decidRe: Dio. Of Virginia

Tue Dec 11 02:41:08 UTC 2018

My guess is that the problems are, as much as anything, problems of
incompetence and reluctance to admit fault.  Some one, possibly several,
will have to lose or give up their position before this is over and that
could include both paid staff and volunteer, elected leadership.

Mike M

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 7:07 PM Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com> wrote:

> Standing committee, lay staff, etc.  I was not referring to the bishops,
> especially Bp Goff about whom I hear good stuff.  Grace, I will put my
> opinions out of public view, but it seems to me there is something amiss in
> the 'leadership system.'  I don't know what.  I am concerned that no one
> 'outside the diocesan leadership' seems to know what is going on.  I sense
> 'secrets are being kept, probably in hopes that this can be worked out
> quietly without going public.  I am sorry a well-trained consultant was not
> engaged to help sort all this out.  Sometimes spending money is well worth
> it in the end.
>
> My prayers for VA as you all move forward.
> Ginga
>
>
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> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:58 PM Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > What leadership are you referring to? Susan Goff is our Suffragan and
> > currently the Ecclesiastical Authority for the Diocese; she’s really our
> > only continuity right now, and we need that. Bishop Ihloff is leaving
> soon,
> > I think—I’m not sure how long his contract is for. Ted Gulick retired as
> > Assistant bishop, then came back on as Interim Canon to the Ordinary, so
> > technically he doesn’t have any specifically Episcopal governance role.
> He
> > is, thank goodness, helping with visitations.
> > The Secretary/Chief of Staff of the Diocese is leaving at the end of this
> > month. And I honestly don’t know the status of any of the rest of the
> > diocesan staff at this point, or who is filling what roles, except the
> > office of Transition Ministries. It’s kind of been like a game of musical
> > chairs for some time, with folks being moved from one position to
> another.
> > So yes, new leadership would be good, and at some point we’ll be calling
> a
> > Diocesan, but in the meantime........
> > And at this point I don’t see why anyone would want to come here as
> bishop.
> > I miss Peter Lee...
> >
> > > On Dec 10, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Would new leadership at the diocesan level be possible?  Something
> needs
> > to
> > > change, I think, for a fresh breeze to blow and some sunlight to shine.
> > I
> > > am so sorry y'all are experiencing this, Grace.
> > >
> > > Ginga
> > >
> > > <
> >
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> > >
> > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > >
> > >> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 4:59 PM Grace Cangialosi <gracecan at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Well, when I said something about it to Bp. Ihloff, he said they had
> > >> decided it wasn’t actually a good fit—and I’d heard that from other
> > folks,
> > >> because their focus is more on congregations. He also said it would
> have
> > >> been very expensive...
> > >>
> > >>> On Dec 10, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Jay Weigel <jay.weigel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I think the people of Dio. VA are owed an explanation of what is
> going
> > >> on.
> > >>> Clearly, someone does NOT want this to happen, or the outside
> mediation
> > >>> committee would not have been sunk. At least that is what it looks
> like
> > >>> from here, standing a bit outside the circle.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jay the newly Orthodox
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:36 AM Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks for the concise history.  I have followed your posts about
> the
> > >>>> bishop situation in DoVA, and this one puts it altogether in helpful
> > >> ways.
> > >>>> A certain 'mystery' abound in all this with the resignations and
> early
> > >>>> retirements (wasn't Bp Shannon supposed to go another year?).  I
> wish
> > >> the
> > >>>> greater diocese could see the whole 'why' picture.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> BUT, remember where I come from...SC took years - at least 25 to
> come
> > to
> > >>>> schism.  I am not saying that is happening in VA, just that my
> > >> experience
> > >>>> is so particular regarding diocesan leadership leading down the
> wrong
> > >>>> path.  And, again, the schism was not such a terrible thing for
> those
> > >> of us
> > >>>> who remained with TEC.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Ginga Wilder
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <
> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
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> > >>
> >
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 11:18 PM Grace Cangialosi <
> gracecan at gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Ginga,I c
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The idea of dividing the diocese has been floated from time to
> time,
> > >> but
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>> can’t imagine its ever happening. I think what would make the most
> > >> sense
> > >>>>> from our perspective would be to move everything west of the Blue
> > Ridge
> > >>>>> into SW Virginia, but that would make that diocese incredibly
> spread
> > >> out.
> > >>>>> I’m sure there are ways it could be divided across the middle, but
> I
> > >>>> don’t
> > >>>>> know where that would be.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It seems that the Bishop Provisional position might be a title in
> > >> search
> > >>>>> of a job description, at least, they seem to serve in a variety of
> > >> ways,
> > >>>>> depending on the situation. We were told at one point that there
> were
> > >>>> plans
> > >>>>> to bring in a mediation group—Quaker or Mennonite, I think—to work
> > with
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>> diocesan staff. At the same time we were in search for a second
> > >>>> Suffragan.
> > >>>>> That search was suspended, and the decision was made not to use the
> > >>>>> mediation group.  Somewhere in there our Canon  to the Ordinary
> left
> > >> very
> > >>>>> suddenly and is now in Texas. So Bishop Gulick, who had recently
> > >> retired
> > >>>> as
> > >>>>> assistant hibishop came back on as Interim Canon to the Ordinary
> Then
> > >>>>> Bishop Shannon announced he was leaving at the end of Convention,
> and
> > >> we
> > >>>>> were told we would be getting a Bishop Provisional for three years,
> > and
> > >>>> we
> > >>>>> would vote on that person at Convention.
> > >>>>> Which didn’t happen, and that led us to where we are today. Oh, and
> > we
> > >>>>> also have Bishop Ihloff part-time, and I’m not sure what his title
> > is.
> > >> I
> > >>>>> think he is scheduled to leave fairly soon.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So we have one full-time Bishop Suffragan, who is the current
> > >>>>> Ecclesiastical Authority, one part-time bishop who is due to leave
> > >>>> shortly,
> > >>>>> and another bishop who is serving as interim Canon to the Ordinary.
> > And
> > >>>> not
> > >>>>> a clue about starting a search for a new diocesan.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Good grief, laying it all out like that really points up the
> > confusion,
> > >>>>> doesn’t it?! And that doesn’t even touch on all the personnel
> changes
> > >> in
> > >>>>> the diocesan office over the last several years.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Dec 9, 2018, at 8:06 PM, Ginga Wilder <gingawilder at gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> South Carolina has had two provisional bishops since the schism in
> > >>>> 2012.
> > >>>>>> Rt. Rev. Charles vonRosenberg, retired of E.TN (known to Ann) and
> > Rt.
> > >>>>> Rev.
> > >>>>>> Gladstone "Skip" Adams, retired of CNY.  Bp vonRosenberg helped SC
> > >>>>>> reorganize an Episcopal diocese in SC after Mark Lawrence took
> most
> > of
> > >>>>>> local TEC congregations out of the church.  (This is still being
> > >>>>>> litigated.)  Bp Adams has continued to shepherd TECSC and has
> firmed
> > >> up
> > >>>>> our
> > >>>>>> organizational needs.  Both of these bishops work/ed parttime.
> The
> > >>>>>> Episcopal Church has rules of tenure for provisional
> bishops...like
> > >> 2.5
> > >>>>>> years with a possible one-time extension.  I do believe a
> > provisional
> > >>>>>> bishop must already be a bishop when called to a diocese.  The
> most
> > >>>>> notable
> > >>>>>> difference with a provisional bishop is that s/he is a is hired by
> > the
> > >>>>>> diocese, thus can be discharged by the standing committee if
> things
> > >>>> don't
> > >>>>>> work out well.  I'm not sure this would work well in conflicted
> > >>>> dioceses.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This is probably an itchy question, but is it possible for Dio of
> VA
> > >> to
> > >>>>> be
> > >>>>>> divided into two smaller dioceses?  The job seems so overwhelming
> > and
> > >>>>> huge
> > >>>>>> with the number of churches included in VA.  Yeah, I said
> itchy....I
> > >>>>>> understand many would not want to consider this.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The other thing is I agree totally that the truth of what has gone
> > on
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>> create the present unpleasantness in the diocese needs to be told
> to
> > >>>>>> Episcopalians there.  Perhaps the diocese would need to have
> certain
> > >>>>> skills
> > >>>>>> in its next bishop?  But, if secrets are being kept from the
> general
> > >>>>>> members, that is just playing the same stuff into the future and
> > that
> > >>>>> ain't
> > >>>>>> healthy!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Blessings all.
> > >>>>>> Ginga
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> <
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
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> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
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> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 6:21 PM Ann Markle <
> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
> > >
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Western New York. Bishop provisional is nothing like interim or
> > >> priest
> > >>>>> in
> > >>>>>>> charge. It’s in contemplation of an entirely new form of Diocesan
> > >>>>> structure
> > >>>>>>> (not yet fully known; to be discerned as we live into it), not
> some
> > >>>>> kind of
> > >>>>>>> “special care for a troubled diocese.” Don’t know what you'd call
> > >> that
> > >>>>>>> other kind of bishop (maybe the same thing), but that’s not the
> > model
> > >>>> in
> > >>>>>>> play here.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 12:12 AM Grace Cangialosi <
> > gracecan at gmail.com
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I’ve forgotten, Ann—what is your Diocese now? Five years seems
> > like
> > >> a
> > >>>>>>> long
> > >>>>>>>> time for a provisional. If we’d been able to find one, the term
> > >> would
> > >>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>> been for three years.
> > >>>>>>>> It almost sounds as if the role of bishop provisional is the
> > >>>> equivalent
> > >>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>> priest-in-charge. We’re using that more and more in our diocese.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 11:01 PM, Ann Markle <
> ann.markle at aya.yale.edu
> > >
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Yep. We’ve been talking bishop provisional for a couple of
> years,
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>> formalized it at diocesan convention last fall. +Sean Rowe of
> > >>>> Western
> > >>>>>>> PA
> > >>>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>> our provisional bishop elect, to begin a 5 year term in April
> > 2019.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 10:46 AM Grace Cangialosi <
> > >>>> gracecan at gmail.com
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I saw an article earlier this week about the potential—or
> > >>>>>>>> current—shortage
> > >>>>>>>>>> of bishop candidates and what it might mean for the future
> > >>>>>>> organization
> > >>>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>> the church. Your situation in Michigan sounds as if it might
> be
> > a
> > >>>>>>> trial
> > >>>>>>>>>> case for that. It’s happened in other places as well.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Judy Fleener <
> fleenerj at gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Our bishop, Western Michigan is now the provisional for
> Eastern
> > >>>> Mich
> > >>>>>>> as
> > >>>>>>>>>> he
> > >>>>>>>>>>> continues as our diocesan.  I'm a member of the Standing
> > >>>> Committee.
> > >>>>>>>> This
> > >>>>>>>>>>> is seen as a step toward something where our bishop will
> become
> > >>>>> their
> > >>>>>>>>>>> bishop also. Not sure that that means  our becoming one
> > diocese.
> > >>>>> Our
> > >>>>>>>> See
> > >>>>>>>>>>> city is now Grand Rapids.  We have hired the communications
> > >> person
> > >>>>>>> from
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Eastern Michigan to to that job for us along side the job in
> > >>>> Eastern
> > >>>>>>>>>> Mich.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Part of the motivation is money..
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 6:10 AM Grace Cangialosi <
> > >>>>> gracecan at gmail.com
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, in another change of plans, it seems we aren’t going
> to
> > >>>> have
> > >>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Bishop Provisional, after all. Instead, Susan Goff, our
> > >> Suffragan
> > >>>>>>> will
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> continue to be the Ecclesiastical Authority until we have
> > >> elected
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> consecrated a Diocesan. Lord only knows how long that will
> > take!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I’m not sure what I think about this, but it doesn’t feel
> > like a
> > >>>>>>> good
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> idea. OTOH, they’ve really been having a hard time finding a
> > >>>>>>>>>> Provisional.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Judy Fleener, ObJN,SSH
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Western Michigan
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>> Ann
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
> > >>>>>>>>> Buffalo, NY
> > >>>>>>>>> www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> Ann
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The Rev. Ann Markle
> > >>>>>>> Buffalo, NY
> > >>>>>>> www.onewildandpreciouslife.typepad.com
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <
> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
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> > >>
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