[Magdalen] TEC talk

anthony clavier anthonyfmclavier at gmail.com
Mon Oct 21 16:23:47 UTC 2019

When Samuel Seabury was consecrated the SEC was not in communion with the
See of Canterbury. It was for that reason that Provost and his friends
demanded that Seabury's consecration not be recognized. (of course that
Seabury was a chaplain to the British Army during the Revolution had
nothing to do with it!)

It is difficult to determine when either the SEC or TEC entered what would
become the AC. While Canterbury consecrated two TEC bishops, the
legislation enabling the consecrations made it clear that American bishops
and the clergy they ordained were not permitted to function in England,
Wales, Ireland or Canada.


On Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:06 AM Charles Wohlers <chadwohl at satucket.com>

> There was indeed a separate Church of Ireland prior to 1800, but it was
> very different in character from the Scottish Episcopal Church. The
> Church of Ire;land was established (and it was the Established Church)
> in Ireland by the English, and it was definitely the church of the
> establishment in Ireland. No doubt anyone consecrated a bishop in that
> Church would have to swear fealty to the British Crown. The Scottish
> Episcopal Church, OTOH, was quite different. It was largely Jacobite (i.
> e., opposed to the English) and was most emphatically not the church of
> the establishment. In fact, in 1784 it was only slowly emerging from
> decades of severe restrictions by the English. I would guess that the
> bishops of the Scottish Episcopal Church were only too happy to tweak
> the nose of the English by consecrating Samuel Seabury.
> --
> Chad Wohlers
> chadwohl at satucket.com
> Woodbury, VT   USA
> On 21.10.2019 10:57, Simon Kershaw wrote:
> > I'm not sure you are quite right about that, Ferdinand :-)
> >
> > The Church of Ireland was indeed disestablished and disendowed under
> > the terms of the Irish Church Act 1869, and which came into effect on
> > 1 January 1871).
> >
> > And prior to that, there had been a United Church of England and
> > Ireland.
> >
> > But that United Church had been created by Article V of the Acts of
> > Union 1800. Before that the Church of England and the Church of
> > Ireland had been separate sister churches.
> >
> > So when Samuel Seabury was consecrated in 1784, and the first General
> > Convention of the PECUSA took place in 1785, it became the fourth
> > national church of what is now the Anglican Communion, as it was only
> > some 11 or 12 years later that the England and Ireland were united as
> > a single church.
> >
> > simon
> >
> > On 2019-10-21 15:29, Ferdinand von Prondzynski (Emeritus) wrote:
> >> Simon wrote:
> >>
> >> > Actually it was the fourth entity, after the Church of England, the
> >>> Church of Ireland and the Scottish Episcopal Church.
> >>
> >> Hm, one argues with Simon at one's peril, but the Church of Ireland as
> >> a separate church only came into being with disestablishment in 1869.
> >> So when Sam Seabury was consecrated Scotland created the third
> >> entity... The Church of Ireland in due course was the fourth.
> >>
> >> The Scottish Church cannot claim to have invented the term 'Anglican',
> >> but nomenclature aside the Communion began at its instigation.
> >>

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